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To: marginnayan who wrote (141441)	1/3/2002 10:12:58 AM
From: SouthFloridaGuy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

<<If public professional traders were former MMs, why are they are playing the game they know they simply cannot win.>> Not true and I am an authority of it because I used to work in one before I got sick of the lifestyle. There are plenty of shops on Wall St where the 25 year old daytraders are still making size money. They are all registered, Series 7, 55 and have short-term trading down to a science. They receive no salary, but trade firm's capital on leverage with their own capital. They trade midcap NYSE stocks and the good ones focus on a few sectors. They close all their positions at day's end, no overnights. Most of the money comes from "bullets" aka married puts whereby a trader can short the downtick.

To: marginnayan who wrote (141441)	1/3/2002 12:11:16 PM
From: At_The_Ask	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

Market makers and specialists sell to the public at the highest possible price and buy from them at the lowest possible price.I think what Grace is reffering to is the fact that small traders rarely get a good deal. If some news hits a stock overnight the mm's gap it up ridiculously high and sell to the small traders till the volume is gone. When the surge of small buyers is gone the price will fall. The mm's sold or shorted high and when the public sees they don't have a moonshot on their hands they will sell back, often for less than they paid.

To: marginnayan who wrote (141441)	1/3/2002 1:39:30 PM
From: GraceZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

If public professional traders were former MMs, why are they are playing the game they know they simply cannot win. Hehehe, you try convincing someone who is used to making 10 mil a year for the firm that they were making that money not from any particular trading skill they possess but because they are on the opposite side of the negative expected return in public trading. They are amazingly ignorant of how they made that money. If they are in the winning phase of trading its even worse, its like trying to convincing a gambler who is winning that the odds are weighted to the house. The thing is, in these trading firms there almost always is someone who is winning large, doing 300k days. So they are convinced that it is possible, that they just need to refine their trading. The ones who don't go broke are the ones who employ these deadly dull strategies of pairs trading, covered Delta neutral positions, scanning for block trading on thinly traded issues, etc. I'd rather drive a truck if I have to make money that way. Slot machines return, by law, 96% of the money to the public. The house only makes 4%, yet most people lose all their money (that they choose to play with) or win small playing the machines even with 96% being returned. Someone wins big and its those few big wins that sucker the rest into playing.