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To: ahhaha who wrote (141813)	1/5/2002 11:58:12 AM
From: mishedlo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Ahhaha If you do not think the MMs are disguising their bid sizes as well as putting in phantom bids you are wrong. I see it every day. Fake bids that disappear just as soon as the price inches towards the "bid". Usually 10000 but sometimes a lot more or less. I believe it is done to deceive. On CCMP that I was watching on Friday, REDI had an ask of 1000 shares at a certain price. On each sale, remaining ask would drift down from 1000 to 800 to 200 etc. Every time it got to 100, it was raised back to 1000. At least 15 times I watched this. Someone wanted to get rid of 15,000 shares at a certain price (and did), and the average shares shown by REDI while liquidating this position was 500 and at no point did it go above 1000. Thus an ask of 100 could be 100 shares or 10K shares or even 100K shares. There is no way to know. This shit happens all the time and the attempt is to give illusion that someone wants to buy a huge portion at a price or there really is someone selling a huge block at a certain price. In the example above someone wanted to hide a 15K position on CCMP (or about 1.26M worth of CCMP) by appearing to only be selling 1K shares. This is a small example and peanuts compared with what happens in CSCO or INTC or something like that. I use this example cause it is fresh in my mind from Friday. More easily catchable are the fake bids or asks that appear and go in less than a second. (I caught that one above only because I had a position and was watching very carefully). I believe fake bids/asks are done to fool any possible analysis of bid/asks to make them meaningless, and or to just plain lie about intentions or supply. I would love to be in a position some day to supply one of these fake bids with 10,000 shares short 10 times in succession at some lofty price, trounce the mm with a market order sell of another million shares short, then somehow cover the entire short at some lowball price in the ensuing debacle(just a fantasy and not possible in reality). At any rate these phantom bids disappear so fast most of the time that it is just not possible to hit them once let alone 10 times. That said, on low float issues I really do believe it is possible to manipulate price up in small lots of 100-1000 shares. If someone wants to unload some POS stock the way to do it is cause a rally on light volume then steadily sell into it. I believe this happens all the time. It does not take huge price blocks to accomplish at all. On large stocks like CSCO INTC etc, however, 100-1000 or even 5K blocks from the average investor on a normal trading day does not have ANY meaning unless they all try and get out at the same time in a panic. M