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To: ahhaha who wrote (141964)	1/7/2002 3:34:52 AM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

<I've been analyzing every trade data since the '60s and I claim that their sample is representative. > I think you're right... I also think that it's even more true for more illiquid issues in a 'normal' market, but you could of added your comments in support to the report especially seeing the [only] two years they used IMO. <Did you get the point of the article? I think it is relevant to anyone's trading.> I don't think it's particularly useful on it's own... it's nice to know it occurs yes. My point to Grace was that you have to be careful assuming that large blocks are meaningless while small orders 'push price'... large blocks can be very meaningful. < Yes, if you're the specialist and you're long you let it go up on nothing. This comment is too insubstantial for me to assess.> Well, then you're not looking for cause... that's fine. <Your point is that you don't have a point.> My point is that you're observation is something any good stock trader has noticed but isn't of much consequence in making real money in the markets... get it? <Does it help you make money?? Amateurs like to parade around the value of Redibook, L2, and other paraphernalia. Does it help them to make money? I can answer that. It helps them to lose it faster than they would otherwise, drop out, and then get a day job. So it does help them to make money.> I agree with what you say.... and my point also. <The specialist and MM are only machines. They love to crow about how skilled they are, yet they aren't any more skilled than any other. The market controls them completely. Not the other way around. Neither of these really understands the machine because if they did, they would freeze with uncertainty. They all learn the necessity of not knowing the details. Their angle is turnover and size of line. > Agreed for the most part... however I have seen some folks who really found their calling so to speak and who are much better at the game than most. That does not address the point that they use the phenom to their advantage, indeed perhaps help cause it depending on the circumstances. <.. those who control the flow... In spite of all my efforts over the years in this pathetic place to dispel the over abundance of cheap amateur ignorance, I have failed to convey that no one is in charge. Haven't you figured out that all they want you to do is be envious of what they fear?> I have no idea... if you don't think a stock moves quickly on no volume for reason then you don't know how it works... again, not that I think it matters or that there is any big money to be made except in smaller issues. <and even then you have to be in a position to lay off risk when the freight train [xsigma event] hits. This is of some interest: You don't lay off risk like that, that is, by reacting to an event. You had better already have the implied risk laid off, for between the cup and lip you'll find the cost of getting the lay rises to the point where you would be wrong to take it. That's how the "pros" discover the other "pros". Specifically, you have to already be there and that's what investment is all about. Otherwise, you'll get gapped all the way out.> I said [meant] you have to have the ability to lay off risk in other issues/index etc. I misspoke and should have said "incase" the train hits, rather than "when". I'm really referring to any trader trying who might attempt to play the game implied in the article without running a portfolio that is hedged..... ie. every individual trader on these boards, including you and Grace. <These guys that work for the O'connors brothers are headed for gambler's ruin. > The point is they are a hell of a lot smarter than YOU and don't even sniff at the anomaly you suggest. Good to see you in classic form. DAK