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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (42186)	1/12/2002 10:41:52 AM
From: average joe	Respond to of 82486

MANHATTAN PROJECT Words by Neil Peart, Music by Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson Imagine a time When it all began In the dying days of a war A weapon -- that would settle the score Whoever found it first Would be sure to do their worst -- They always had before... Imagine a man Where it all began A scientist pacing the floor In each nation -- always eager to explore To build the best big stick To turn the winning trick -- But this was something more... The big bang -- took and shook the world Shot down the rising sun The end was begun -- it would hit everyone When the chain reaction was done The big shots -- try to hold it back Fools try to wish it away The hopeful depend on a world without end Whatever the hopeless may say Imagine a place Where it all began They gathered from across the land To work in the secrecy of the desert sand All of the brightest boys To play with the biggest toys -- More than they bargained for... Imagine a man When it all began The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave On that August day All the powers that be And the course of history Would be changed for evermore...

To: Solon who wrote (42186)	1/12/2002 11:35:09 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

What is left in Iraq bears no relationship to how Japan was. In Iraq a greater number of larger bombs were dropped with much greater accuracy on a country that apparently had less targets. If there were targets left in Iraq (and there was) it seems logical that there where targets left in Japan. The assumption and insinuation was: "without continued "HEAVY" bombing, OK I used the word heavy in some cases and didn't in others. In any case heavy bombing was ongoing up until the surrender. There is no logical reason for the report to have operated on the assumptiont that somehow this would stop in the Summer of 45. You can of course independently make the case that you think Japan would have given up without continued heavy bombing but I don't think it makes sense to use the bombing report as a source for this argument as it does not say this. They COULD have killed every man, woman, and child. Naturally this reduces your sincere "comparison" to meaninglessness, which is why I have objected. Not likely, infact it would have been almost impossible even if we kept up the heavy bombing and use nukes as quickly as we could build them, unless you think the war would have gone in to the 50s. However if the bombing continued for a few months there would have been a significant possibility of more deaths then the atom bombs caused. As the deaths COULD have been any number up to the census; so your ratio COULD be right. I just find it contrived, self swerving, meaningless and misleading: Any specific number is rather contrived but there is a strong chance that the number of deaths would have exceded the number killed by the bombs. Tim, you cannot judge and punish a man for what you think he "might" do: only for what he has done. I wasn't thinking of it as much as a punishment, as a defense. I agree with you about not punishing people for something they have not done. If he has done something (criminal), then your cause with him is not one of self defence, but one of justice. If he is going to kill many people then is it not a matter of defense. If several trillion (or perhaps an infinite number of trillion) swashbucklers like yourself, take up scurrying around trying to trim the bonsai tree of time, things can get rather confused in one hell of a hurry. Probably the best reason to hope that time travel doesn't exist. I think the best reason to think it does not and will not exist (the tenses get confused with time travel in a sense if it will exist it already does atleast if anyone has traveled back to our time or earlier) is that there is no evidence of all these travelers mucking around history. If there were very few and they where very skilled maybe they could leave no evidence behind but if there was very few in say 1000 years, then if civilization was still around in a million years you would think that the technology could have advanced to the point where there would be very many. Tim