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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (16209)	1/12/2002 7:06:37 PM
From: maceng2	Respond to of 281500

has pretty well convinced everyone that Fascism was a right wing movement. It was not, and is not today. Fascism is, above all else, a Nationalistic movement. Hard to say it is Socialism in that light, never mind what the current Academia think. Socialism rules across borders. Working classes unite and all that stuff. Fascists conquer other countries, import wealth to enhance the nations overall living standard. In that respect I see it as right wing, maybe USA Academics have it right. And yes...very similar to British Imperialism. Especially around the time of slave trade and forced opium trade into China. Skull and crossbones and all that malarkey

To: LindyBill who wrote (16209)	1/12/2002 7:42:15 PM
From: Elsewhere	Respond to of 281500

<However, I believe that National Socialism came out of the Germany's collectivist left> No. The left-wing parties opposed the Nazis fiercely, from the beginning in the 20ies. <and is rooted deeply in German Philosophy, with Kant and Hegel at the bottom of it, standing on Plato's shoulders.> Kant? No way. Hegel? Distantly. Nietzsche inspired some Nazi thinkers but it would be an insult to philosophy to call their fabrications "philosophical" because they lack basic methodology. <Most Germans were then, and are today, Socialists.> Do you think that socialists can become the world's no. 2 exporter? Exports 2000: bn pop. per cap. (USD) (mn) (USD) USA 782.4 268 2918 D 551.6 82 6732 J 479.3 126 3801 So on a per-capita basis Germany is by far the highest exporter. Socialism? On the paper of the party charters, maybe, but not in real-life business. <[Hitler] left the Banks, Business's and people alone, as long as they did exactly what he told them to do.> Not true. Nazis didn't prescribe management decisions except making sure that no Jews were left in public life which, apart from the human catastrophe, was a major impairment for many companies and institutions. <Modern day Academia has pretty well convinced everyone that Fascism was a right wing movement. It was not, and is not today.> If you called it a "Kleinbürger" (petty bourgeois) movement there would be something to argue about.

To: LindyBill who wrote (16209)	1/12/2002 9:33:28 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

My understanding of National Socialism economics is based in part on what Hitler himself wrote in Mein Kampf, and in part on about 20 books I read this summer on that topic in particular for a term paper, some of which were written during the 1930's, some during the 1940's, some by Germans translated into English. The best writers have gained access in the last decade or so to a multiplicity of archives which became available to Western scholars after the fall of the Soviet Empire - and I suppose the same could be said about Eastern European scholars - there was very little access to archives on the other side of The Wall. So maybe the reason why recent scholars have a different way of looking at things is because they have access to more original source material. I have never read Hegel, but I have read Plato and Kant, and I would not call either of them "left" or "collectivist," but maybe I am missing something.

To: LindyBill who wrote (16209)	1/12/2002 9:48:14 PM
From: Elsewhere	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I guess your claim of German philosophers as predecessors of national socialism is influenced by John Dewey's "German Philosophy and Politics" (1915/42). A detailed refutation: Georg Geismann, John Deweys "Deutsche Philosophie und deutsche Politik", Zeitschrift für Politikwissenschaft, 11 (2001), 631-638. A German PDF version is available online: unibw-muenchen.de And here is a refutation of the claim that Nazis were socialists (German): Waren die Nazis Sozialisten? h-ref.de