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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Thomas M. who wrote (10982)1/16/2002 2:55:04 AM
From: Nadine Carroll  Respond to of 23908
 
It's been suggested that he should take the Zionist tack of taking what you can get, and then trying for more. I'm not a strategist, so I don't know

For once I must agree with you -- it is a Zionist tack. It is also a tack of every nation-state on earth: they try for the most they can get, and they try for more if they can get it. All nation-states are in the game for their own advantage. The main difference is that democracies consider the prosperity of their people as their advantage, while dictatorships only consider the prosperity (and survival) of the government as an advantage.

Israel, like many other nation-states, has a good sense of what is possible between states, when and how to strike bargains. This is the sense that the Palestinians completely lack. Time and again, they pursue ruinous policies rather than compromise.

By every rule of self-interest, the Palestinians should have tried for the best deal they could get at Oslo, which would have meant actually building credibility by abiding by their written accords. Then they could have tried for more with a protest and PR campaign, which they are obviously good at -- getting world sympathy while blowing up innocent civilians is a tough job, even if you have the advantage of blowing up Jews, and they have done it.

But no. Arafat couldn't change his spots. He's been a liar and terrorist all his life; he couldn't change even when it would have profited him. Arafat always survives by trimming and temporizing and avoiding decisions; if he had decided to abide by Oslo, he would have had to put down Hamas. That would have required decisive action. He couldn't do it.

Besides, when there was peace, the Palestinians noticed how corrupt and rotten his government was; the Fatah was beginning to shoot Arafat's ministers when he saved himself with this intifada.

Arafat was so weak, he couldn't even take the deal as a ruse, though it would have been to his advantage, compared to starting the intifada when he did.

Instead, he just tried to appease everybody, talking peace in the West, war in the East, and preparing for war. He has pleased no one. His credit has just about run out in the West, and he has brought a disaster to the Palestinians.

If the Palestinians were able to function politically, they would get rid of him themselves, but they can't. Arafat has been successful in making sure that he remains the one indispensable man in Palestinian politics no matter how big a disaster he is. So it looks like the Palestinians will follow him off the cliff.



To: Thomas M. who wrote (10982)1/16/2002 7:28:24 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 23908
 
Thomas. One morning we will all wake up to the news that an all out massive attack on the arab/palestinians has begun.
This long time in coming and well deserved attack appears to be the only kind of negotiation these people understand.

They will lose, so what will they have gained with all their terror attacks???

Palestinian gunmen kill U.S. citizen
2nd Israeli also shot to death
Published January 16, 2002
JERUSALEM -- Palestinian militants shot to death two Israelis on Tuesday, including an elderly and disabled American citizen who was seized from a Palestinian checkpoint, driven off in his car and riddled with at least 20 bullets, authorities said.

The killings were the first of civilians by Palestinian militants since Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat called last month for a halt to all attacks. The same shadowy group of gunmen that claimed responsibility for Tuesday's killings vowed more acts of violence.

"The days of quiet are over," news analyst Alex Fishman wrote in the daily newspaper Yediot Ahronot.

At the same time, however, Palestinian officials met a key Israeli demand by arresting the head of the Palestinian faction that Israel blames for assassinating Tourism Minister Rehavam Zeevi in October, according to news reports.

Israeli officials were skeptical about the arrest of Ahmed Saadat, head of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

"Until I see him behind bars, I won't believe it," said Raanan Gissin, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. "We've been disappointed so many times and fed up with so many announcements that they've arrested someone."

Gissin said news of Saadat's arrest probably was meant to impress two groups of visiting American lawmakers. He predicted the Palestinians would soon free Saadat, who got the top job after a Popular Front leader was killed in August, allegedly at the hands of Israelis.

A top-ranking Palestinian security official was quoted as saying that the Popular Front leader would not be turned over to the Israelis for trial.

In a statement sent to the news media, militants from the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claimed responsibility for the slaying of Avi Boaz, 72.

The militants, linked to Arafat's Fatah faction, said the killing was "another, but not the last response," to the death on Monday of Raed Karmi. The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade leader, who boasted of killing Israelis, was killed by a bomb that Palestinians blame on the Israelis.

Karmi's killing and the deaths Tuesday followed one of the quietest three-week periods since the latest intifada erupted in Israel in September 2000.

"The two leaders, Arafat and Sharon, have decided to continue moving along two parallel lines that will never meet," Fishman wrote.

"Things are getting worse," said Jabr Wishah, deputy director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, which is in the Gaza Strip. "And with confidence I can say that the worst has not yet come."

Arafat's Palestinian Authority issued a statement condemning the killings and affirming its commitment to a cease-fire.

Boaz, who was born in Israel but held a U.S. passport, was an engineer and contractor who served a mainly Arab clientele. Boaz had driven to Beit Jala, an Arab community on the edge of Jerusalem, with a Palestinian friend. Boaz wanted to buy some furniture for his house, according to Israeli army officials and Israeli news reports.

He was stopped at a checkpoint staffed by four members of the Palestinian naval forces and four others in civilian clothes, the Israeli army said. When the Arab companion refused to leave the car, the four unidentified men beat him and threw him out of the car. They then drove off with Boaz, who was blind in one eye and had a wooden leg.

His body was found several hours later in his car near a playground in Beit Sahour. Palestinian officials notified the Israelis of Boaz's death only after his American passport was found, the Israelis said. The details of the attack were pieced together with the help of Boaz's Arab companion, they said.

There were no details on the U.S. citizenship of Boaz, who lived in Maale Adumim, a large settlement outside Jerusalem.

"He worked with them [Arabs]. They were his friends. He was a man who trusted everyone. He trusted the world," said Boaz's daughter Idit.

In the other killing, Yoela Chen, 45, was shot to death by two men who fired at her vehicle at close range, army officials said. Her car had been parked at a gas station in Givat Zeev, another large settlement on Jerusalem's edge. Chen's 70-year-old aunt, who also was wounded, was listed in moderate to serious condition, the army said.
chicagotribune.com



To: Thomas M. who wrote (10982)1/16/2002 8:10:46 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 23908
 
What do these guys do? just pack a lunch like others workers
head off looking for innocent people ( friend or foe )to kill and try to get back for supper. How can you or anyone support this kind of scum?

Slain Jewish settler built homes for Palestinians

Last updated: 16-01-02, 20:33

Mr Avi Boaz, an American architect who moved to Israel and built homes for Palestinians, never thought he would meet his death at the hands of the people he often called my extended family .

The 72-year-old spent half his week living in the Palestinian-ruled town of Beit Jala in the West Bank to oversee building projects by the firm he ran with a Palestinian partner, relatives said at his funeral on Wednesday.

The rest of the time Boaz, who also held US citizenship, resided in the Jewish settlement of Maale Adumim near Jerusalem.

"I knew him for 34 years. He came to our place as a visitor and loved the area so much he rented an apartment," Jamal Arja, owner of the Everest Hotel in Beit Jala where Mr Boaz lived and last lunched, told Reuters in a telephone interview.

"Everybody in Beit Jala was shocked to hear what happened to him. They never believed anyone would want to hurt him." Palestinian gunmen kidnapped Mr Boaz yesterday from a Palestinian roadblock near the West Bank town of Bethlehem where he went to buy construction supplies.

The gunmen shoved his Palestinian companion out of the car and took the partially disabled Mr Boaz to the nearby village of Beit Sahour where he was found with 20 bullets pumped into his body later in the day, Israeli army officials said.

A dozen bullets had pierced the windshield of the car he drove, which bore Israeli licence plates. He was killed 10 days after his wife died of cancer.
ireland.com