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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: combjelly who wrote (141889)	1/18/2002 5:19:04 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1585083

Conservatives and liberals both like to social engineer I know. That was my point. I figured the conservative social engineering was assumed by the chart because it put liberals further up on the "personal liberty" axis. Since they both love to social engineer (or atleast elements within both camps do) I don't think that is accurate. the point is that a one dimensional, left/right mapping leaves out a lot and distorts the discussion. I agree and have been trying to argue that point with Ted. The whole liberal/conservative pigeonholing that is popular in this country is nuts. It doesn't actually describe anything of importance. I agree with you that the brush is too broad, but I think I don't go as far as you in that opinion. I think it still is of some use at least in limited ways. I do however agree that it is absurd to try to pin every person or political idea or philosophy into one axis. Tim

To: combjelly who wrote (141889)	1/18/2002 6:24:58 PM
From: i-node	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1585083

Liberals like to drape themselves in the flag of personal liberty, conservatives in the flag of morality This is nonsense. Al Gore brought us the 1.6GPF toilet. I want a 3GPF toilet. Is that your idea of personal liberty? Liberals don't want personal liberty a damned bit more than conservatives. Liberals just want the government to run our lives because they apparently can't run their own lives satisfactorily. Very few conservatives believe the government should be dictating personal behavior such as consensual sexual acts, and they are only the most extreme of the genre. And conservatives are behind laws regulating personal behavior like the sodomy laws here in Texas, the laws against oral sex in Virginia, the cohabitation laws in North Carolina, laws regulating when and where alcohol is sold and other social engineering laws Come on, this is a totally bogus argument. No one is getting arrested for consensual sexual acts, period. Laws of this nature were put on the books many years ago, by liberals and conservatives alike. Law regulating the sale of alcohol is certainly nothing new (nor should it be). Most reasonable people do not object to such regulation -- again, liberals, conservatives, whatever. These laws have much less to do with personal freedom and more to do with personal safety from those consuming the product. It lets people like my little buddy David Ray paint everyone he doesn't agree with as a "liberal" A cogent, well-reasoned argument can be made that liberalism is responsible for the most serious problems our nation faces today; to this argument, liberals are nearly defenseless. Liberalism brought us such gems as Social Security, Medicare, the Vietnam War, the Welfare State, the worst aspects of our criminal justice system, the list goes on and on. When you review what liberalism has done to this nation, one might doubt that liberalism and intellect can coexist in the same person.

To: combjelly who wrote (141889)	1/18/2002 11:37:36 PM
From: i-node	Respond to of 1585083

And conservatives are behind laws regulating personal behavior like the sodomy laws here in Texas Again, I feel the need to point out that this bill was signed into law by the flaming liberal Ann Richards.

To: combjelly who wrote (141889)	1/19/2002 4:00:20 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1585083

The whole liberal/conservative pigeonholing that is popular in this country is nuts. It doesn't actually describe anything of importance. You probably label tejek both and me as liberals, but we are on opposite sides on many issues. That liberal/conservative brush is just way too broad. And I have said any number of times that on certain issues, I am definitely conservative but I think all this labeling comes from our need to pigeonhole people in slots. Apparently, then you can decide how you will respond to them generally rather than to the issue at hand. One other thing, I agree that we don't agree on a number of issues but its funny that it doesn't result in these loud and usually time consuming rants, like the ones with D. Ray and others. Why do you think that is?