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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (16880)	1/20/2002 2:55:16 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Respond to of 281500

CB - you might want to ask Iqbal Latif about this over on his thread, it's the sort of thing he would know something about. Subject 14747 reference to a relatively recent anthropological study done by a female anthropologist living among Pashtun women

To: Ilaine who wrote (16880)	1/20/2002 3:01:02 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

CB, Were you thinking of this article from National Review? Stanley Kurtz Out of Sparta The Face of the Pashtun nationalreview.com

To: Ilaine who wrote (16880)	1/20/2002 4:55:59 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 281500

Great post, but I'm sure you can find better anthropologic material from the late 1800s and even early 1900s. (as well as late 1900s and early 2000s, not to forget the handbooks of slavery of the 1700s) I especially thought this one as surrealistic as Mr Surrealist <and the law allowed and even encouraged the Spartans to kill their slaves (by whom they were outnumbered) — to keep those slaves under control, and to build the courage and fortitude of the Spartans themselves.> <The Pashtun unhesitatingly beat their children — slapping them hard across the face simply for stumbling or bumping into something.> Child (and wife) spanking is an interesting constitutional thing, already in the "west". (just as capital punishment, on the increase in some parts of the uncivilseized world) <Children are encouraged to beat each other as well.> Do they have school shootouts, always a fat guy to be beaten on in any high school B-movie, as well as the jock. <Boys roam in groups in which they constantly jockey for power and learn to fight> etc,etc... Really funny reading Ilmarinen This one equally good at the end <They learn that all men are equal — equally free to dominate their weaker fellows.> You are truly amazing...

To: Ilaine who wrote (16880)	1/20/2002 6:47:23 PM
From: SirRealist	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Here in the US, we expect our children to cooperate. Individualism is important, but teamwork is important, too. Is this one of the things that gives us an advantage in war, and in industry? My guess is yes. Comparing third world cultures with first world cultures is not given to easy analysis. In places where hunger exists, survival demands a hardness, I suspect, which likely helps define why competition is encouraged. Similarly, pets are merely competing for too little food. Though occasionally, I've been fortunate to work in a team environment, most of my professional experience has demonstrated an 'every one for themselves' environment, with clear pecking orders built upon alliances with the right person(s), not a team of people. Competition is more acute than is readily apparent when one walks in the door. Nurture and mentoring is rare. Our culture and material wealth grants us such niceties as validated feelings and an array of psycho-social understandings. In hungry cultures, I presume the endless pursuit of enough to survive is not conducive to much idle time discussing or reading about how to act. In short, I suspect cultures and faiths develop in response to living conditions. Via competition for scarce resources, some gain the luxury to contemplate newer approaches that can be more symbiotic. Surely, the thought of young men in madrassas who were orphaned by war or disease or malnutrition suggests there's fertile ground to be had when nature and nurture have deprived much that we take for granted. Mother Theresa said "Loneliness is the worst form of poverty." In India, they have the caste system and Untouchables are at the bottom. I have learned how incredibly important it is to be touched. In my past anti-poverty work, I learned that the aid I provided did not alleviate as much as could be healed by touching an arm, a hand... just reaching across to reassure a desperate person that they remain touchable. I also know that most Christian ministers understand you can't preach to an empty stomach. I well understand that this does not explain all the differences in cultures. But it's an integral part that gets overlooked or deliberately ignored, too much. The Pashtun culture and other tribal cultures, change one step at a time, for most. Initiative and teamwork cannot always resolve the lack of seed or water.