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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SirRealist who wrote (17438)	1/28/2002 2:13:16 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>>Lots of countries do not want to advance to minimum thresholds of civilized behavior. If they'd not attack others, we could ignore them and we would not seem so ugly. << LOL! I rest my case.-g- BTW, did you take a look at the web site I linked documenting human rights abuses on the part of the Israelis as well as the Palestinians? The Israelis have killed more Palestinian civilians than the Palestinians have killed Israeli civilians. " Fatalities in the al-Aqsa Intifada,: 29 Sept. 2000-19 Jan. 2002 592 Palestinian civilians were killed by Israeli security forces' gunfire in the Occupied Territories, of whom 164 were minors under the age of 18. At least 47 of those killed were extrajudicially executed by Israel. In the course of these assasinations 13 additional civilians were killed. Ages of the minors killed: Thirty Seven minors were age 17, Twenty Six were age 16, Thirty Two were age 15, Twenty Six were age 14, Seventeen were age 13, Eight were age 12 ,Six were age 11, Five were age 10, Two were age 9, Two were age 8, One was age 6, One was age 3, and One was a four month old baby girl. In Addition: In the Territories: 141 Palestinian security forces personnel were killed by Israeli security forces' gunfire, including One minor age 17. One of them was extrajudicially executed by Israel and Two were killed during the assasinations of a Palestinian civilian. 13 Palestinian civilians were killed by Israeli civilians, including One Two month- old baby girl. Four foreign Citizens were killed by Israeli security forces gunfire. 85 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinians, Nine of them were minors under the age of 17: One was a aged 17, Two were age 16, three were age 14, One was age 13, One was a 10 month-old baby girl and One was a 5 month-old baby boy. At least Six of them were allegedly killed by persons affiliated with the pna Three foreign citizens were killed by Palestinian civilians. 33 members of the Israeli security forces were killed by Palestinian civilians. Eight members of the Israeli security forces were killed by Palestinian security forces gunfire. At least 19 Palestinian civilians were killed by Palestinians due to suspicion of collobarting with israel. Some of them had Israeli citizenship. Two of them were executed by the Palestinian authority and Four were killed by Palestinian security forces. One 12 year old boy was killed by armed palestinians during a confrontation with palestinian civilians who were trying to prevent them from shooting at Idf posts Eleven Palestinian civilians, Three of them minors, were killed by Palestinians security forces in circumstances unrelated to suspicion of collaborating with israel . Within Israel Nine Palestinian civilian, resident of the Occupied Territories, was killed by Israeli security forces gunfire. Four members of the Palestinian security forces were killed by Israeli security forces gunfire. 89 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinian civilians, residents of the Occupied Territories. 27 of them were minors under the age of 18. Of them: Three were age 17, Six were age 16, Eight were age 15, Five were age 14, One was age 13, One was age 10, One was age 8, One was age 4 and One was two years old baby. Six Israeli civilians were killed by members of the Palestinian security forces. Five foreign citizens were killed by Palestinian civilians. One of them was a minor, age 16. Twenty members of the Israeli security forces were killed by Palestinian civilians residents of the Occupied Territories." btselem.org

To: SirRealist who wrote (17438)	1/28/2002 5:12:29 PM
From: AlienTech	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

>>Lots of countries do not want to advance to minimum thresholds of civilized behavior.<< Dont you think this is relative? After all what is civilized behaviour. The US is just 200 years old and went through slavery which was banned in most parts of the world thousands of years ago. Other parts of the world Had women who were treated equal to men in rights which the US did not have until the 60's. In fact most asian countries have WOMEN prime ministers and presidents while the US is anal retentive about a NON-WHITE in the white house let alone a woman. In the grand schemen of things, US and western civilization is very young. And they should not be judging others on how they currently are. But lets stop here for a second.. In which other country would a company like Enron, Exodus, Global crozzing , mcleoid, xoxo etc be able to totally unscrupliously rape their investors with impunity!!!! Only in the US would this be considered civilized behaviour!! >> Message #17439 from SirRealist at Jan 28, 2002 2:04 PM Americans don't seem to understand that everyone does not want to be like Americans. It's one of our uglier qualities.<<< Nah. I think we understand it pretty well. Lots of countries do not want to advance to minimum thresholds of civilized behavior. If they'd not attack others, we could ignore them and we would not seem so ugly. And considering the inventions the Palestinians have contributed to the world - airplane hijackings - I think being ugly is preferable to being dead. << Not true at all! The US has always taken what it wanted. It takes time because they have to appear like they are not. In fact in the WSJ there was an article about how the US should annex Saudi Arabia and administer it for the benefit of of man IE benefit of the US since others are not really part of mankind. In fact the US itself is a contradition on that statement since I am sure native indians would be just so glad to live in reservations in conditions like afganistan because they are so hmmm generous! The palestinians might not be right just like the other terrorists, but until very recently the US was the biggest backer or terrorism in the world. With Saudi arabia being a close second. Funding 2.5 billion dollars (matched by another 2.5 bil by saudi arabia) into afganistan each year to fund militia groups in their fight against communism would be considered a terrorist activity by the USSR especially considering the US supplied what FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND stinger missiles? Too bad the russians did not find out that they were really fighting the US until after they left. In the UN world court nicaguaria actually got an injunction against the US to stop and desist terrorist activities against their country!!! I dont have too much time to post or correct things, But the height of things was some former advisor to clinton who proudly broadcasted to the world how the 4.5 bil in aid the US was giving afganistan would be better served by giving it to new york. The US is giving 280 million. Japan and Iran is giving 500 million each. And how america lost soldiers for UN peace keeping duties and other countries should take up those burdens etc etc etc. But Other countries do loose a lot of soldiers in UN peace keeping duties! One of the largest was the indian contingent that went to ceylon/sri lanka where over a 1000 soldiers died. The US has a lot to be proud off! But taking credit for everything good and blaming others for all the bad is also one of it.