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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (17478)	1/28/2002 11:06:45 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi CobaltBlue; Re: "... detainees kneeling, wearing hoods, don't reflect their day to day existence." Allegations are that they're only using hoods during transportation. Re: "Because, if not, it's a really crappy way to treat people." The way I understand it, military prisons are even worse than being in the military. This is probably for obvious reasons. Perhaps unclewest would comment. -- Carl

To: Ilaine who wrote (17478)	1/28/2002 11:56:58 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

CB, Re: But I voted for Bush and I voted for Cheney and I supported Ashcroft, and I expect the best of them. Well, high IQ isn't always associated with good sense... Your boy Ashcroft just spent $8,000 of your money to put covers on justice in the halls of his domain. Hope you feel you are getting your money's worth. You know me... I find John Ashcroft to be a mistake of historical proportions. And now a laughingstock. Re: Unlike you, I have more faith in Dubya than in Molly Ivans, but I hope my faith is not misplaced on this. Bagels and Froot Loops, indeed. I don't let my kids eat Froot Loops, too much sugar, too many chemicals. Looking for wholesome food? This ought to scare you: Message 16969776 Your boy in the White House is working hard to make sure that we have no idea what in the hell we are creating in the biota. If that don't give you pause, then I reckon you are just a hopelessly silly partisan. This canary in the coal mine and grand experiment called corporate AmeriKa says maybe we need a time out to re-think our priorities here. The corn syrup in Froot Loops is the least of your worries. Or it ought to be, if you got a clue. -R.

To: Ilaine who wrote (17478)	1/29/2002 12:42:44 AM
From: DavesM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

CobaltBlue, I believe that the British Government has told its MPs that the detainees are being treated humanely. I seem to remember that the DOD said that while being transported, the illegal combatants wore ear protection (maybe military transport is noisier than civilian aircraft), were restrained, and that some were sedated (because they were not cooperative). I don't know why they wear hoods (maybe its cold inside the plane). So maybe the picture was of the detainees shortly after transportation from Afghanistan. Maybe Unclewest or others could mention conditions in military transport. Anyway, I would venture to guess, that these detainees, receive far better treatment than ANY captured United States military personnel have in the past 50 years.

To: Ilaine who wrote (17478)	1/29/2002 1:41:09 AM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If they are "murderous, psychopathic, mean little pissants" (which I agree with), why then should they simply "return to their former environments" (which I don't agree with at all)? Because of "international law"? I'm no scholar of international law or the Geneva Convention but it looks to me like it's not adequate for nor was it framed for the kind of situation we are currently dealing with: renegade warriors from various countries acting, fighting, killing, murdering, destroying public and private property, on their own behalf, not on behalf of their country or their country's government. If we are going to simply turn these people back over to those countries and those governments, then those countries and those governments need to be held accountable themselves for the actions of these men to the countries, governments, and peoples that they have damaged, if it becomes evident that they will not hold these men themselves responsible. Somebody needs to pay a serious penalty here. And somebody is going to have to be responsible for levying and upholding it. This isn't simply victory in war of one country and its citizenry over another. These are not men who are simply going to go back to some prior peaceful existence before they were called to arms by their nation. They are international criminals, their actions affect more than one or two opposing governments or countries. There is a collective, multinational interest in the fate of these men, and seeing that some kind of justice, in the criminal sense, is done, equally and across the board. And when I say justice, I mean justice for the victims. In essence, if our current international agreements do not give us what we want out of this situation, then we need to change them, amend them, update them, or put something entirely new in place that does. imo.

To: Ilaine who wrote (17478)	1/29/2002 7:29:31 AM
From: SirRealist	Respond to of 281500

>>But I voted for Bush and I voted for Cheney and I supported Ashcroft, and I expect the best of them.<< A friend - a conservative friend - sent me this news item and his pithy response: Item: >>Fed up with having his picture taken during events in the Justice Department's Great Hall in front of semi-nude statues, Attorney General John Ashcroft has reportedly ordered massive draperies to conceal the offending figures. The female figure represents the Spirit of Justice; the female wears a sort of toga-style garment, but one breast is entirely exposed.<<< >SNIP< His comment: "They can cover the offending boob if they like... but he's gonna feel a little silly standing behind that curtain."