Text of Morning Session of Hearing on Enron
February 7, 2002
(Page 10 of 22)
REP. DEUTSCH: Mr. Chairman, you
know, normally I would very easily. But I
think that this might be the time that
we are going to have any chance in a
public setting to even attempt to ask Mr.
Fastow questions. And I know that he is
intending to invoke his Fifth
Amendment prerogative, which I take
very seriously. But at the same time,
you know, within the restraints that he
has -- and he has that right -- you know,
I would ask him if there is any area that
he feels he can discuss, any questions
within the area of his -- you know, so our understanding -- I mean, I just go rebriefed
by our staff on the Rhythms transaction, and still -- you know, and there will be some
people who testify. But obviously this is a transaction that you set up, that you were
the general partner of and CFO at the time.
REP. GREENWOOD: The chair must note that we would all of course like to question
Mr. Fastow. But we have had our discussions with his attorney. We -- it is clear to Mr.
Fastow and his attorney that should he invoke his Fifth Amendment, to which he is
entitled, we would dismiss him. And we have not had this conversation up until this
moment. So the decision of the chairman is firm, and Mr. Fastow, you are dismissed,
and you may be on your way.
MR. FASTOW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
REP. GREENWOOD: The chair then would call forward our
next witness, Mr. Michael J. Kopper, former managing
director of Enron Global Finance. Good morning, Mr. Kopper.
MR. KOPPER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
REP. GREENWOOD: Mr. Kopper, do you have an opening
statement?
MR. KOPPER: No, I do not.
REP. GREENWOOD: You are aware, Mr. Kopper, that this
committee is holding an investigative hearing. And it is the
custom and practice of this committee when holding an
investigative hearing to take our testimony under oath. Do you have any objection to
testifying this morning under oath?
MR. KOPPER: No, I do not.
REP. GREENWOOD: The chair should then advise you that under the rules of the
House and the rules of the committee you are entitled to be advised by counsel. Do you
desire to be advised by counsel during your testimony today?
MR. KOPPER: I do, and I am.
REP. GREENWOOD: And would you identify your counsel, please?
MR. KOPPER: I have Mr. Wallace Timmeny and Mr. David Howard here as my
representatives.
REP. GREENWOOD: And could you, Mr. Kopper, please pull your microphone a little
closer and make sure that we can hear you?
MR. KOPPER: Yes.
REP. GREENWOOD: And if your attorneys would spell their names, their last names for
the record.
MR. TIMMENY: Timmeny is T-I-M-M-E-N-Y.
MR. HOWARD: And Howard is H-O-W-A-R-D.
REP. GREENWOOD: I thank the gentlemen. In that case, Mr. Fastow, would you rise
and raise your right hand, and I'll swear you in? Mr. Kopper, do you swear that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth?
MR. KOPPER: I do, so help me God.
REP. GREENWOOD: You have already indicated, Mr. Kopper, that you do not come with
an opening statement. And so the chair would then recognize himself for questions.
Mr. Kopper, according to the committee's investigation and the Powers report, you
violated Enron's code of conduct by investing in partnerships, doing business with
Enron without board approval, and corrupting others at Enron to join you in your
dubious enterprises. You enriched yourself at Enron's expense to the tune of more
than $10 million, and you used your power, position and influence within Enron to
threaten and pressure Enron employees in an attempt to obtain favorable terms for
your private partnerships. Can you sitting here under oath truly deny any of this?
MR. KOPPER: Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline to answer the question based on my
right under the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution not to be a witness
against myself.
REP. GREENWOOD: Let me be clear, Mr. Kopper: Are you refusing to answer the
question on the basis of the protections afforded to you under the Fifth Amendment to
the U.S. Constitution?
MR. KOPPER: Yes, I am.
REP. GREENWOOD: Will you invoke your Fifth Amendment rights in response to all
questions here today?
MR. KOPPER: Yes, I will.
REP. GREENWOOD: It is therefore the chair's intention to dismiss this witness, but the
committee of course reserves all of its right to recall the witness at any time. Mr.
Deutsch, would you concur in this?
REP. DEUTSCH: Yes.
REP. GREENWOOD: Okay. Mr. Kopper, you are dismissed.
MR. KOPPER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
REP. GREENWOOD: And the chair calls forward Mr. Richard B. Buy, chief risk officer of
Enron Corporation, and Mr. Richard A. Causey, chief accounting officer, Enron
Corporation. Good morning, Mr. Buy and Mr. Causey. You gentlemen are aware, I
believe, that the committee is holding an investigative hearing. And, as you have
heard, when doing so we have the practice of taking testimony under oath. Do either of
you have any objection to testifying under oath?
MR. CAUSEY: No, sir.
MR. BUY: No.
REP. GREENWOOD: Hearing no, such response, the chair then advises you that under
the rules of the House and the rules of the committee, you are entitled to be advised
by counsel. Do you desire to be advised by counsel during your testimony?
MR. CAUSEY: I do.
REP. GREENWOOD: Mr. Causey, would you identify your attorney?
MR. CAUSEY: Yes, Mr. Reed Weingarten, sitting here beside me.
REP. GREENWOOD: Would you spell your last name for us, please?
MR. WEINGARTEN: W-E-I-N-G-A-R-T-E-N.
REP. GREENWOOD: Mr. Buy, do you choose to be represented by an attorney?
MR. BUY: Yes, I do.
REP. GREENWOOD: And would you identify your attorney for us, please?
MR. BUY: Mr. J.C. Nickens.
REP. GREENWOOD: Mr. Nickens, would you spell your last name, please?
MR. NICKENS: Yes, that's N-I-C-K-E-N-S.
REP. GREENWOOD: Okay. In that case, gentleman, if you would both rise I will
administer the oath. Do you both swear that the testimony you are about to give is the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
MR. CAUSEY: I do.
MR. BUY: I do.
REP. GREENWOOD: You may be seated. You are both under oath. Mr. Buy, do you have
an opening statement?
MR. BUY: No, I don't.
REP. GREENWOOD: Mr. Causey, do you have an opening statement?
MR. CAUSEY: Yes, sir, I do.
REP. GREENWOOD: Okay, the chair recognizes the gentleman Mr. Buy for five minutes
for an opening statement.
MR. CAUSEY: Mr. Causey.
REP. GREENWOOD: I'm sorry, Mr. Causey. I apologize, Mr. Causey.
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