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To: Zardoz who wrote (81357)	2/1/2002 7:44:32 AM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116753

A Growing List of Countries are Banning Cyanide. biz.yahoo.com ... license... the Haber Gold Process (HGP) ... to IBK, AG, a German capital company... ... in the joint venturing of gold mining projects. ... to represent Haber's non-toxic gold technology in Turkey, Greece, Romania, the Czech Republic and Finland. Europe is currently taking a firm stand against the use of cyanide in gold mining, especially since the January 30, 2000 cyanide spill in Romania. That spill reached the Danube River in Serbia and killed all life over a stretch of 248 miles. ... recent report by scientists on cyanide assessed the risks to humans and animals and stated the risks are unacceptable: ... cannot be accepted because of its irreversible damage to the ecosystems... [end.] and... for more info please visit pinksheets.com HABE -- Haber, Inc. Primary Venue: Pink Sheets Best Bid: 0.028 Best Ask: 0.031 (or) Tweety Bird treet cents pennies a share d:oug got a zillion average a nickel

To: Zardoz who wrote (81357)	2/1/2002 7:46:39 AM
From: long-gone	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

You are looking at only one side of the Cyanide debate, the side of the environmental extremist groups! There are two sides to the issue, many of these environmental groups goals are to stop all commercial activity in "natural areas" at any cost not to reduce cyanide use, see my posts about planting of zoo lynx fur this thread. Do you as quickly decry the total use of road salts? US EPA "Production of the most common cyanides was roughly 5 billion pounds a year in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The major cyanide releases to water are discharges from metal finishing industries, iron and steel mills, and organic chemical industries. Releases to soil appear to be primarily from disposal of cyanide wastes in landfills and the use of cyanide-containing road salts. Chlorination treatment of some wastewaters can produce cyanides as a by-product." What happens to Cyanide when it is released to the environment? Cyanides are generally not persistent when released to water or soil, and are not likely to accumulate in aquatic life. They rapidly evaporate and are broken down by microbes. They do not bind to soils and may leach to ground water. epa.gov Drinking water is generally considered "safe", but far more people die each year from the improper use of drinking water(drowning) than have died from cyanide in the last 100 years. There is a possible safe or unsafe use of anything. You need to ask yourself a question, "Why doesn't ANY environmental activist group acknowledge the existence of naturally occurring Cyanides or the maximum naturally occurring level?"

To: Zardoz who wrote (81357)	2/1/2002 9:24:08 PM
From: E. Charters	Respond to of 116753

No I am not an ass. You are falling for environmentalmania scare stories and fear tactics. "Cyanide kills every living thing in its path" is straight out of the Sierra club tabloids. Second line story was about communing with Dolphins who could predict the future and spoke Chinese. You no doubt get your science from Donald Duck comic books, Hutch. Only you don't read them that well. In fact there have been no fatalities on record in Canada from a cyanide leak spill or burst tailings dam in 100 years. It is hard to find a single plant incident that was even considered serious. Cyanide is added to mill water at the rate of about 0.5 to 2 lbs per ton. Since it is expensive, an acidulation process is used to recover what cyanide did not compound with iron or copper after process is finished. After that mills add a permanganate process to recover 95% of what remains. The small amount of cyanide not complexed at this time goes into a tailings pond where 30 day retention is the rule. Within 24 hours ultraviolet light from sunshine destroys what CN remains. When tails off water goes into a stream, one mile downstream cyanide is not detectable at all. That is why the Canadian environmental review boards do not even hassle mines at all about cyanide. They know it is not an issue. If it were, they would be all over it like a cheap suit, as they are not known for their broad mindedness, where they have any ammo at all. There have been some spectacular tailings dam failures in Spain, and the tropics (Phillipines and in Guyana) recently. Torrential rains swelled levels and broke down dam materials placed too close to rivers. Bad design I am afraid. Not enough experience with tropics conditions. Despite reports in the popular press, that were highly hyped by local claims seekers, no evidence of human injury could be found. The most likely thing that could cause fish death is not the cyanide levels but strangely enough, the heavy metals, deoxygenation of water from slimes, and the liming of the tailings water, which is extreme (11 to 12 PH) to control PH and metals. We used to put so much preciptative lime in our tailings pond in Quebec that ducks would not even land on it. Anyone knows Alkali will kill animals before anything else will. I am not saying that mines do not need to make progress in treating tailings and cyanide liquorsor tailings dam safety and design. But with the accident rate in North America so far, you could build a house next to the average tailings dam up here and take out any sort of insurance with minimal premium. I lived within a mile of one of the largest tailings dams in the world in Timmins and slept like a baby. It had been there for 90 years and wasn't going anywhere. Kids play on tailings ponds in Kirkland Lake and Timmins. Of course an active tailings pond that has leach liquors in it you do not boat on. We aren't crazy. Funny I lived near tailings ponds for 20 years and didn't see on dead duck or dead chipmunk near them. Funny. But read the Sierra club literature and you would think you would keel over dead from walking downwind a mile, or that evil mine managers are heaping up bones in their kill pile for disposal in the autoclave. The price of doing evil gold business. I would not drink water coming from a gold tailings pond if you held a bazooka to my head. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying normal caution is not applied. But to jibber with fear over cyanide is just not borne out in fact. EC<:-}

To: Zardoz who wrote (81357)	2/1/2002 10:23:38 PM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

The Romanian Accident is an example of the laxness of communist and eastern European environmental standards of safety and does not impugn the North American mine standards or practices with regard to cyanide. In Romania, they had 100,000 tons of high concentration liquor, almost 7.8 grams per litre cyanide. God knows what they were doing with it. (171 lbs per ton!) Mine leach liquors averages in plant are perhaps 1/80th of that! That is 17 million pounds of cyanide. No wonder it poisoned the river. Even so the average river, 200 feet wide, and 30 feet deep, 100 miles long, contains 187 million tons of water. That would dilute the concentration 1872 times. That is 41 mg per ton. Standards for drinking water are 0.2 mg per ton. So we can see that that the issue here was an unsafe level held back by and unsafe reservoir of poisonous liquor. It's levels, and practices that were commonly known to be dangerous in produce at any cost communist puppet states that are at issue. As at Bhopal India or Chernobyl, if the handling or practices degrade to the negligent or dangerous level, milk becomes a hazardous product. Every day in industry are handled the worst poisons known to man. They are a necessary part of every industrial process. Phosgene gas, nickel carbonyl, cyanate gas, uranium hexafluoride. We make nickel, uranium fuel, insectide, and 1001 products of mankind. Many plastics are made from liquids and gases that would kill you in a microsecond. the effluent in Brownsville Texas from making circuit boards has been under review from the government for a decade. It's deadly. Go see Erin Brockovitch. Gold mines are not the Kings of Pollution. Day in day out we do these things safely. Hell farmers put chemicals on your rice krispies wearing rubber monkey suits that if one tear occurs in the suite while applying it, they are told that their life expectancy is limited. You panicking because you just found out they use hazardous chemicals in industry? Where you been boy? The worst polluters on the planet are farmers. Number two are roads and highways. A close number three are cities and their power plants. Devastation on an unprecedented level. Shut down every mine in existence today and their pollution batement would not even be noticed on a global scale. The trouble with Sierra club bogeyman science about pollution is that it is knee jerk reactionary about the sources of pollution. The Sierra devotee, multiplied by 1,000,000 gets his energy from a high sulphur coal plant and burns light night and day reading glossy print made from toxic ink made on sulphuric acid river-destroying paper, about some gold miner in Hellengone Alaska that has a dirty no-good sluice box. We can see in a picture of this cretinous miner, a fish jumping near by, and on the pan are some more. Behind him the last bald eagle flies, and a bear fishes salmon. Clearly, nature is receding at an alarming rate. "Damn" says the Sierra D. Duck mind police. "We gonna get that evil river destroyer." He hops in his SUV and burns 5 gallons tearing down 50 miles of salted tarmac to the club meeting. Tossing out bottles and candy wrapper in a red fury he belches carbon dioxide all the way to the woods hideaway of his fellow nature lovers. There his at Redwood beam building he harangues the members while the gas furnace blazes and everybody read the 100 page Wall Street Journal, made from 140 year old CDN spruce. He pauses after a beer, and flushes the toilet into the sea nearby. "Mining is ruining the nation he cries!" Multiply him by 1,000,000 complainers and his daily energy use, paper use, effluent and all the cyanided metals he uses, and the miner will never catch up. 4500 miles away the miner sighs. He wanted to pollute. His daddy told him. " Lay waste to the country. Devastate. Let no one living thing survive. We are miners son." He hangs his head. "But dad, I can't catch up to the Sierra club, they are doing so much better a job at killing the planet! Look at the money they got. Why they pollute more than we do without half trying!" "I know son, I know. We lost the race. But hey!, you can throw this beer can in the river, And can the Sierra guy crap on a stump?" "Why no!" says the son, brightly. "We will catch him yet." But in his heart he knows he has lost. He staggers a bit. He sits and sobs. Scornfully the eagle sneers at him. "I can still lay eggs. I can fly free. You can't kill me with that sluice box, boy" he seems to say. The miner shakes his fist vainly at the proud bird. It is the passing of an era. Nature has won. It has passed the crown of destroyer to the ignorant. Those who merely strove mightily to claim bragging rights of devastation have had to concede defeat. EC<:-}