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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neenny who wrote (43185)	2/4/2002 12:11:12 AM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

Thanks for that post. I hope it doesn't end your friendship with E. Truth shouldn't do that, but sometimes it does. You were dead on when you wrote " I have long viewed the ruin of yours and Christopher's friendship at the hands of defending Poet, as a real shame. You and CH, had a history going back a long way. It was sad to watch that come to ruins. From an outsiders view, it looks as if a lot of that ruin was a result of defending Poet." I, too, regret the loss, I hope temporary, of my SI friendship with E. Anyone who followed Beltane knows well that she and I shared some very enjoyable, somewhat intense experiences. I had counted her a friend (and still do), and she told me she did the same. I had a series of PMs and emails with both Poet and E which were also quite positive and enjoyable. I regret that my taking a principled stand against corporate illegality led to an interruption in those friendships. As to experiences Poet may have had with other posters, I have heard stories from a number of other posters saying much the same thing, but I see no benefit in making an issue of that. I do, however, vividly recall a very vehement exchange she had with another SI member during the course of which she said quite explicitly that she was finding she greatly enjoyed flame wars and attacking other posters. So that much has been documented by her own words. Not that I could probably find those posts now, they were not addressed to me, were quite some time back, and I don't even know to whom they were addressed. But they made a strong impression on me at the time. SI does get hot and heavy at times. I have been on both sides of flame wars. As others here have said, they come, they go, and hopefully the friendships survive them in the end.

To: Neenny who wrote (43185)	2/4/2002 12:49:16 AM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

BTW, did you ever have a problem with suggestive or threatening PM's from Christopher?? No, he doesn't have me in his sights, and I believe that the problem isn't PM's as much as it is public posts. I know nothing about PM's except that he keeps talking insinuatingly and caddishly about PM's and emails he has exchanged with various women, including Poet, bia, YYB, and, the answer is yes, me too. He evidently can't help himself, or doesn't see any reason to. Only a cad does that sort of thing, as any gentleman knows. I have long viewed the ruin of yours and Christopher's friendship at the hands of defending Poet, as a real shame. You and CH, had a history going back a long way. It was sad to watch that come to ruins. You are entirely wrong in your perception that the end of my friendship with Christopher corresponded with Christopher's fixation on Poet. Your sadness was misplaced. You have not followed the thread closely (and there is no reason that you should, except that having not paid attention, it would be sensible of you not to make assertions.) CH had a personality change. Maybe not in RL, I can't know that; but on SI he certainly did. The change predated his interactions with Poet. I've told people in PM that he used to be a different person. I keep thinking he will change back. Big deal, Poet has flirted. Who hasn't? I know you don't condemn flirting, and haven't said you do. (No friend of Edwarda's could condemn flirting!) But you've tossed it in there as though it makes a point. I will be very surprised if you can site an instance in which Poet has continued to post flirtatiously and playfully to someone who has indicated that such interactions are unwelcome to him. CH has no idea how unpleasant that is to a woman, clearly. Even now he is cyberrubbing up against YYB in a way I find creepy. Why doesn't he just stop talking like that to females who don't like it? It's easy. Just stop. No references to sex or begging him to make passionate love or kissing or soooo sweet in private or enjoyable private nicenesses or exciting love or kissing your soft unnamed or the boudoir or ... and this is just the last few days. Why don't you suggest to your friend that he stop it? It is repellent to women when a man whom they dislike puts his cyberhands on them when they don't want it. It is skin-crawly. Attack Poet if you want, but doing that seems a bit insane to me, because I've watched the show. The fact is she left because she got tired of his behavior, which was, as I observed it and in my opinion, unwholesome, intrusive, unwelcome and grossly insensitive. He has shown himself to be a cad, imo. And you now claim she badmouthed "our young men in uniform"? Show that post if you care to have that believed. Oh wait! I just reread your contribution to that discussion. You didn't say she said anything against "our young men in uniform" at all, did you? You kind of implied it, but on closer inspection I see that you wrote that you "felt" she was "dissing our servicemen," and you "interpreted" something she said as "dissing our servicemen." Your feelings and your interpretations are not at issue, though. Whether Poet dissed our young men in uniform is the issue. I say she didn't, she says she didn't, and I asked all of CH's friends to help him search the archives to a post in which she did that and no such dissing of our young men in uniform was produced. Hey, I interpret the post you just made to me as you dissing our servicemen, Neenny. Because they are fighting for our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and you are defending a person who seems determined to diminish the pursuit of happiness of some women with whom he has certain differences. Stop dissing our servicement, Neenny. So much for "I interpret." It's outrageous. Go find the post in which Poet disses our servicemen, please. Not where you "intepret" that she does so. Are you aware that Poet supports our military actions in Afghanistan? Why would she diss "our young men in uniform" and support the military response? Your story about the litigation in which you're involved is interesting but has nothing whatever to do with anything. Poet was entirely satisfied with the no-posting-to-or-about arrangement. CH wasn't, so waived a lawsuit at SI. Her posts to CH asking him, begging him, to leave her alone didn't work, so she left rather than be subjected to him. Good thinking, imo. Given that SI caved. Do you know that he repeatedly posted on Poet's thread on IHub? She just removes his posts now. What is wrong with the man? CH replied to me, that the issue should be just let to blow over. But obviously it will never blow over. It could blow over. Here's a prescription. You might consider urging it on your friend if you think it's a good one: CH either produces the post in which Poet dissed our young men in uniform or apologizes deeply and sincerely for implying that she is unpatriotic and mean with regard to our young men in uniform. And young women. Then he apologizes to all the women toward whom he has behaved caddishly. Talking sexually to women who don't like it is boorish, and threatening to reveal private correspondence, is the behavior of a cad. Apologies and turning over a new leaf would make it blow over. Your defending boorish, caddish behavior by attacking his main victim is not helpful to your friend.