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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (142351)	2/4/2002 5:12:54 PM
From: d[-_-]b	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1578701

tejek, re: If the NRA were the fine organization your posts would have us believe, then they would be working actively to restrict killings by guns through gun control laws and other means. Educating a small group of people on the proper usage of a gun is a very small piece in the huge effort needed to reduce the level of gun violence in this country. 750,000 people receive training yearly, that figure is not small. What would you have the NRA do? They already offer training and safety classes, they encourage the government to enforce the hundreds of laws on the books regarding strong sentencing of crimes involving guns. re: If that were true, we would have not accidental shootings, school schootings and acts-of-passion shootings by adults. Criminals have their fair share of killings but killings are not exclusive to them. Granted there are a couple hundred accidents per year, but that pales in comparison to other accidents such as falling off a ladder. As for school shootings and crimes of passion, I'm not so sure the NRA is equiped to deal with mental health issues. re: why does the NRA [and you]ignore the fact that the level of gun violence and deaths is so much greater than our peers? I'm not ignoring the fact, I haven't once attacked your 30K+ figure. I am suggesting your solutions won't impact that number and that's what the NRA is saying as well. re: And if the NRA believes that its members and law abiding citizens are not the problem, why does it fight gun control laws that should not effect its members with such zeal? Because the law abiding citizen is the only person your ideas for new laws effect. It's already illegal to kill people in most states. re: Sorry but I gave you facts, not CNN headlines No they're not, you haven't offered one good idea. You still think the problem is the guns themselves. America is just full of a lot of bad people, mostly involved in drugs. You keep talking about gun "proliferation" as if that's the problem. It's guns in the hands of criminals that's a problem. You never seem to bother yourself with why they are using guns. Is it to defend themselves from their victims?

To: tejek who wrote (142351)	2/4/2002 5:48:06 PM
From: d[-_-]b	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1578701

tejek, I firmly believe the USA's gun related deaths are strongly correlated to it's drug problem. People who traffic and use drugs commit crimes to secure money for drugs and carry weapons to secure territory and for protection during transactions. Here's a typical day in the life of Olympia, Washington arrests. Note the high number of drug and theft related incidents. news.theolympian.com Crime Report Monday, February 4, 2002 POLICE REPORTS State Patrol Joseph Richard Johnson, 38, of Florence, Ore., was arrested by Washington State Patrol troopers on suspicion of possessing illegal drugs. He was booked into the Thurston County Jail on Saturday. Thurston County Leland E. Huston, 39, of the 1200 block of Boone Street, Lacey, was arrested by Thurston County sheriff's deputies on suspicion of possessing illegal drugs. Huston was booked into the county jail Saturday and later released. Jason John Sallee, 34, of the 5200 block of 80th Avenue, Olympia, was arrested by sheriff's deputies on suspicion of first-degree possession of stolen property. He was booked into the county jail Saturday. Wayne Allen Blocher, 38, of the 3600 block of Seventh Avenue, Olympia, was arrested by sheriff's deputies on suspicion of possessing methamphetamine with the intent to deliver. He was booked into the county jail Saturday and later released. Donald H. Foster, 37, of Centralia was arrested by sheriff's deputies on suspicion of second-degree assault and felony harassment during a domestic violence incident. He was booked into the county jail Saturday. Tammy Lea Mann, 32, of Olympia was arrested by sheriff's deputies on suspicion of possessing methamphetamine. She was booked into the county jail Saturday. Olympia Sean Patrick Devine, 45, of Olympia was arrested by Olympia police on suspicion of possessing illegal drugs. He was booked into the county jail Friday and later released. Nicole Marie Boyer, 20, of the 4400 block of Saratoga Plaza, Olympia, was arrested by police on suspicion of possessing heroin. She was booked into the county jail Sunday. Jared Michael Gigena, 20, of Tenino was arrested by police on suspicion of second-degree theft. He was booked into the county jail Sunday. Travis Lee Rife, 33, of the 500 block of Fourth Avenue, Olympia, was arrested by police on suspicion of possessing methamphetamine. He was booked into the county jail Sunday. Lacey Deborah Ruth Kuhn, 46, of the 700 block of Duckabush Drive, Hoodsport, was arrested on suspicion of first-degree theft and 12 counts of forgery. She was booked into the county jail Thursday and later released. Jeffrey Jerome Hussey, 33, of the 2000 block of Patterson Road, Shelton, was arrested by police on suspicion of possessing cocaine. He was booked into the county jail Saturday. Curtis Paul Colbarn, 35, of the 5300 block of Apollo Street Southeast, Lacey, was arrested by police on suspicion of possessing cocaine. He was booked into the county jail Sunday and later released. Tumwater Luke A. Dentremont, 19, of the 6600 block of Ipsut Court, Lacey, was arrested by Tumwater police on suspicion of two counts of residential burglary during a domestic violence incident. He was booked into the county jail Saturday. Yelm Joshua Paul Duff, 20, of the 9300 block of Cullens Road, Yelm, was arrested by Yelm police on suspicion of second-degree assault during a domestic violence incident. He was booked into the county jail Friday. Thurston County Jail Inmate population as of 3:45 p.m. Sunday: 290 in the main jail, including 12 on mattresses on the floor; an additional 86 in the annex. Operational capacity: 316 in the main jail, 92 in the annex.

To: tejek who wrote (142351)	2/5/2002 11:28:20 AM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1578701

But even a drunk driver is not nearly as effective and as efficient at killing as a gun. Drunk drivers are a constant danger to all of the people around them. Gun owners are less dangerous. In the right hands a gun might increase your safety. In one of the links I provided you, there was a discussion re legislation that pushed for safeties on guns which the NRA opposed........ Was that someone's fabrication? I couldn't find anything in your link that even mentioned any opposition to regular safeties. They where talking about "safety locks" which is a different thing. Again, why does the NRA [and you]ignore the fact that the level of gun violence and deaths is so much greater than our peers? In most of those countries many other things are different as well. Japan for example has much less murder both using guns and not using guns, but it has a lot more suicide. Many of these cultural difference go back way beyond any modern gun control laws. Some of them go back from before useful guns existed in any greaqt number. And NRA [and you] also seem very eager to ignore the possibility that a culture with lax gun laws may beget a culture that has high levels of violence. That possibility seems very low to me. You seem to ignore the possibility that we need guns to defend ourselves because we have a more violent culture. And if the NRA believes that its members and law abiding citizens are not the problem, why does it fight gun control laws that should not effect its members with such zeal? After all, the "good" citizens" and NRA members should encounter no problems in securing their weapons. What laws are you pushing (or complaining about the NRA's opposition) that would cause no problems for most NRA members. I'd have to answer specifically for each proposed law. If that were true, we would have not accidental shootings, school schootings and acts-of-passion shootings by adults. Criminals have their fair share of killings but killings are not exclusive to them. Many accidental shootings are by criminals or mentally deranged people. Many school shootings are not acts of passion but are rather very premeditated. If someone is planning such a shooting then they are a criminal, not just an ordinary person in an extreme emotional moment. A number of school shootings involve people with actual criminal records. Many accidental shootings also involve criminals. I'm not saying that no gun killings are caused by ordinary responsible law abiding people who either have an accident or kill someone in a fit of rage, but such killings are a minority of all gun caused death. If the NRA were the fine organization your posts would have us believe, then they would be working actively to restrict killings by guns through gun control laws and other means. So if someone disagrees with you they are by definition a horrible person or organization and then of course you no longer have to really consider their opinion. Tim