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Politics : Impeach George W. Bush -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (11083)	2/14/2002 12:14:41 PM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 93284

if we cannot trust most people most of the time Sometimes it's known as keeping honest people honest. This can either be done with windows or walls. Walls bar the honest people from passage, windows let them pass but anyone might know where they are going. Either one keeps those inclinded to be honest on the right path but the windows are less restrictive. TP

To: Neocon who wrote (11083)	2/14/2002 12:42:00 PM
From: MSI	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 93284

"Trust, but Verify" (sound familiar?) Just as true for a foreign out-of-control secret bureacracy as it is for an enormous domestic out-of-control (or, backroom controlled) bureacracy. You said:"How will we ever get straight answers? Mostly, I asserted a faith in our institutions, such that the mechanisms of oversight and investigation in place suffice to address the worst abuses...... " We'll get straight answers by all parties knowing there will be prompt and full disclosure, and records that will not be altered or destroyed. Period. The "mechanisms of oversight and investigation" are corrupted when activities are concealed, documents shredded, time goes by, people forget or pass away. The only effective mechanism is prompt and full disclosure, all the time, of everything possible, excluding only the extremely narrow list previously mentioned. There is no reason for public officials to meet in secret, in the vast majority of cases. All states have such laws. Some do the job well, unlike the feds: ago.state.nm.us But even the feds are limited to the following: * Personnel matters - particularly where the agency is firing, hiring or disciplining an individual employee (in some cases, the employee has the right to request a public hearing); * Collective bargaining sessions; * Discussions with agency attorneys regarding pending or imminent litigation involving the agency; * Discussion of the acquisition or sale of public property. rcfp.org And some states, like Florida, start out great, as you recall by the ballot-counting in public, but have their laws steadily eroded and polluted by special interests: "Florida's Government-in-the-Sunshine Law was first passed in 1967 and the Sunshine Amendment was added to the state constitution by voters in 1992. There are more than 500 exceptions to the public records and open meetings laws in Florida. bizjournals.com "Some of those exceptions protect the privacy of individuals, such as rape victims, but many of them were pushed by special interests and public officials who want to protect themselves and keep their activities secret," Stiff said" The possibilities for "mischief" as you call it are enormous, far-ranging, and constant.