i guess that's the end of our discussion then. others can come here and take what they want from our respective words.
i'll leave you with an analysis of the kjv matthew 25:
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
---ok... so the above appears to be a riddle. why don't you tell us what it really means?
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mat 25:14 For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.
---now, when i was a kid in sunday school... before we got to the answer to the above riddle, i was rooting for the guy who buried his one piece. i thought i would have done the same thing. the others appeared to me to be taking too much risk. i was dumbfounded to find that the one i had rooted for was wicked and slothful! and it appears jesus prefers usury over simple safekeeping! oh and he takes that talent from the 'bad' guy and gives it to the 'good' one!
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
---ok... that there sounds pretty tyrannical.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
---the outer darkness... where's the word, 'hell?' i haven't spotted it yet. lots of gnashing. tell me, are you a christian because you love the idea of singing his praises forever, or simply because you're afraid of 'hell?' if for yourself it's out of the former, what about the vast majority of christians? care to speculate on their motivations?
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
---son of man? i never did get that one... i thought he was the son of G-d?
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
--so some nations are goats and some are sheep? i wonder where we stand today?
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
---that's all pretty standard fare... lots of people of lots of faiths have those types of sayings.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
--everlasting fire... yet still no word 'hell.' prepared for the devil and his angels... but what about people?
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
--and what could i possibly give the Lord that he doesn't already have?
so it looks like matthew 25 indicates everlasting suffering for 'bad' people. again i say, i don't understand a god who would punish people forever on the basis of one miserable lifetime.
christians appear to have a particular mindset... they want resolution... they want stasis... i don't see stasis... i see constant flux... a universe simply having a conversation with itself.
i'm not going to be blackmailed into praising your jesus. i have principles. i would go to hell rather than worship a god i don't even agree with!
more than anything though, i'm simply glad that ultimately, you yourself are not the judge of humanity...
in closing; yes matthew 25 indicates eternal torment... again this doesn't jibe with the english translation of certain other passages, including the aforementioned john 3:16. i don't have the time to go and find that other passages which might indicate something other than hell.
yep, i'm taking my dad's word for it.
in any event, nowhere in matthew 25 did i see the word, 'hell.'
so are you telling us that english translations are not the impeccable word of god? it seems odd that your god would have allowed such to have occurred...
perhaps i'm splitting hairs; i'm almost certain that's what you would say.
again, i have principles... i will not be blackmailed into something so senseless as what the bible proposes.
and again i postulate that the vast majority of christians are christians not because they want to be, but because they think they have to be. further, my bet is that in most every congregation of every denomination, the members themselves have their own ideas about god, but keep many of those to themselves out of fear of 'rocking the boat.'
finally, all of mankind seems to seek a redeemer. the name of mine happens to be christiana. after christiana i happen to prefer wodhanaz (odin). if you look into norse mythology you will find that it matches the real world much better than your mishmash of texts known as the new testament.
now of just which denomination are you? ... or are you afraid that your own denomination's peccadillos might be exposed to the light of day here on this thread?
perhaps you're a presbyrterian and don't want the predestination thing brought up... perhaps you're pentacostal and don't want anyone looking into that.
if this thread is too frustrating for you, you can hang out on 'ask god.' but no matter where you are, you have an obligation to show us the love of jesus. from where i sit, i've seen none of that from you; but rather defensiveness and condescension. |
