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To: AC Flyer who wrote (15322)	2/21/2002 10:38:38 AM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 74559

<<the less they have of it the better, imho.>> WONDERFULL!! Totally agree. Now who disagree with that? The fat cats and the leeches that live off tax payers money! <<The government has NO MONEY>> They have a monopoly of rprinting the stuff when they run out of it, don't they?

To: AC Flyer who wrote (15322)	2/21/2002 11:22:14 AM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Respond to of 74559

>>before long we'll find ourselves in the same boat as most European countries - with big-spending, ever-expanding paternalistic big government<< I assume you talk about the Holy See;? re >>(2) a national debt that is one of the smallest as a perecentage of GDP in the Western world;<< ... maybe so, but if Japan for instance is indebted to 130% of its GDP, it owes it to its own population. In the case of US you deal with a sizeable current account deficit, that does not show any intention of decreasing - looks like a big hungry cuckoo bird having swell of a time in the nest called earth (just look at emaciated Nihon birdies, falling overboard) And where do the worms go? Into the Enron's trading pit:P (oops, that one is closed until further notice) ? dj

To: AC Flyer who wrote (15322)	2/21/2002 12:26:28 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

Let's see, if I follow your logic, debt is good because responsible government is impossible. To my mind,seems like two wrongs don't make a right. Our Founding Fathers had a long discussion of the issue of a national debt. The Federalists, in particular Hamilton argued for the usefulness of debt. The original Demolib, Jefferson argued against the moral turpitude of one generation profligately overspending and saddling future generations with national debts. The irony, of course, is that Jefferson was a do as I say, don't do as I do sort. He died in debt to the tune of about $5.2 MM. His heirs and successors, being honorable folks finally got the debts paid off in full about 50 years after his funeral.... You may be right about how useful the debt is as a fiscal chokechain. You are certainly right about percentage of GDP that our debt represents. As to how society takes care of itself, you prefer rugged individualism. I prefer fairness. Your route has led to the outrageous self dealing of the executives at Enron and Global Crossing, screwing loyal employees out of severance and pensions while filling their pockets with stolen and filthy lucre. This is the logical conclusion of your "do it for myself" mentality. Is this really the basis of a good society? Cordially, Ray

To: AC Flyer who wrote (15322)	2/21/2002 3:33:38 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

America's Total Debt Report Hi AC, Germane to our prior discussion, here's something I just happened upon. mwhodges.home.att.net <Snip> America has become more government spending-dependent and debt-dependent - - than ever before with national debt of $30 trillion, or $108,000 per man, woman and child I am concerned about the debt being passed to our younger generation. Who isn't? I take it you're not? Cheerio!

To: AC Flyer who wrote (15322)	2/21/2002 5:15:42 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Respond to of 74559

Debt - Following up on our prior discussion: "I sincerely believe... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale." --Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816. ME 15:23

To: AC Flyer who wrote (15322)	2/22/2002 8:17:56 PM
From: David Howe	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

AC, I agree completely. << My point of view is that the Federal government should ALWAYS run a deficit. >> It's very similar to the choice many of us make to carry a mortgage on our homes. We believe that a reasonable debt of that type helps us invest in our future. The mortgage allows us to use our assets to start businesses, pay for children's college, etc. These things are investments in the future and might be hampered if we put all of our assets into our home. Our nation does the same thing and it is a reasonable decision. As long as we live within our means and as long as the nation does the same. Interestingly, as time progresses and assets increase in value we find the mortgage becoming less and less sizable and the assets becoming more and more sizable. The same thing happens in our nation's economy. IMO, Dave