Thomas,
Firstly, you said, "I'm not a big fan of violence in a religion, but on an ethical level, that makes perfect sense. If someone wages wear on you, or provides support for someone who wages war on you, one should fight back."
The Quran says:
[at-Taubah 9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).
[at-Taubah 9:5] Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
So if you think because we provided support for Israel, they should fight us back, right? And it must follow you think the terrorism of 9/11 is OK, right? Whether you know it or not, that is what you just said. They acted on verse 9:5 of the Quran because of our support for Israel, among many other reasons. You think that is OK?
Secondly, you said, "Good example. Israel has been aggressively persecuting Muslims, and the U.S. has provided massive (crucial) support. You correctly identify America as an enemy of the Muslims in that area."
Do you know anything about Middle East history? If you did, you would realize Israel is defending herself, as she was there first. Please read the following facts:
1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E, the Jews had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab domination since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 hundred times in Bible. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish refugees: Arabs were not driven out of their homes. Following the UN decision on Partition in 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. They argued that an "Arab presence" would only get in the way of the planned devastation. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed by Israel from Arab countries is estimated to be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied their police and security forces with weapons.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Jewish grave markers were used to build public urinals in occupied Jerusalem. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed Before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel- notwithstanding the fact that the Arabs refused to participate in the 15 nation United Nations Commission of Palestine which recommended partition
in 1948 and sought immediately to undo its work by force of arms.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians between 1948 and 1967.
19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives between 1948 and 1967.
20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall between 1948 and 1967.
How could Israel have been aggressively persecuting Muslims when you said yourself that is OK to fight back if someone wages war on you? Israel owned that land way before the rise of Islam. So they are just fighting for what was theirs to begin with.
And additionally, if you don't want to go back to the beginning (which would be a mistake to pick a point of time of your choosing, which many make), lets look at from 1947 on....
us-israel.org
The UN Resolution 181 of 1947 gave Palestine their land. They never accepted the resolution or wanted to acknowledge Israel as a nation, ever. However, between Resolution 181 and the six day war in 1967, they never asked for a declared Palestinian nation. Why? Because the land was owned by other Arab countries. That was OK. It was Israel owning the land that was the big problem because the Palestinians never and still to this day, acknowledge Israel as a legitimate nation.
So in 1967 many Arab's decided that they would wipe out Israel and take back the land. However, in six days, not only did Israel win this war waged upon it, but won in the war the land that is argued about today and is the occupied territories Palestine wants back. However, they waged a war against Israel and lost the war and land. Now they want it back? But not only do they want it back, or so they say. But there whole fight going back to 1947 is they don't acknowledge Israel as a nation. So if Israel gives it back for peace, it will only be a matter of time until they want it all back. (They say in Arafat's office there is a map of the region with no mention of Israel. And the Palestinian charter calls for the destruction of Israel.)
Israel wants the acknowledgement they deserve and peace. (For goodness sake, they got the land mainly as a result of WWII, losing 1/3 of the worlds Jewish population. They needed to give the Jews a place to stay, to try to establish a peaceful place for them to live, that would not oppress them or kill them again!) In return for the acknoledgment they will give back the land. And the Palestinians have never agreed to that.
So who is defending itself here? It is clear Israel is, and you said it is OK to do so when someone wages war on you.
So do you want to re-evaluate your statement, "Israel has been aggressively persecuting Muslims"? Who is agressively persecuting who?
From your post it seems you support the terrorist attacks of 9/11, and you are confused who is the aggressor and who is the defender in the Middle East conflict. Do you see that?
God Bless,
IGIT |
