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Politics : Middle East Politics -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (1156)2/22/2002 6:11:39 PM
From: Thomas M.  Respond to of 6945
 
If only we could pick the lock of the Saudi official's desk drawer (the guy who is hiding the top-secret Arab endorsement of UN 242)! -g-

Tom



To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (1156)2/22/2002 6:51:16 PM
From: Thomas M.  Respond to of 6945
 
NPR's top Israel correspondent is on the payroll of Zionist organizations:

electronicintifada.net

Jewish group Hillel touts Gradstein as pro-Israeli:

A page at the Hillel states that inviting her to the campus was specifically for the purpose of "educating a broad cross-section of the campus about Israel from a Jewish perspective" and that this would be "a strong tool in the fight against the Palestinian propaganda" on the campus.

Tom



To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (1156)2/22/2002 9:01:56 PM
From: Thomas M.  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 6945
 
<<< This morning the BBC World Service asked Mr. Rolf Mayer, a former minister in the last Apartheid government of South Africa whether from his experience he thought that the onus was on the Israeli government or the Palestinians to act to end this conflict. Mayer said that it was not until the Apartheid government--the side with the power--gave up the dream of perpetuating white rule that South Africa could move forward, and that therefore it was up to Israel--the side with the power--to decide to end its occupation. Mayer said that negotiations take place in the context of conflict and therefore the demand that all violence be stopped as a precondition for negotiations was one which would have doomed the South African peace talks to failure.

Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, Apartheid South Africa and Israel were close military and political allies. So it is saying something when even Israel's former Apartheid friends are telling it to see reality in a different way. And it is remarkable to think that when everyone in the world sees things clearly, only the United States government and media pretend they do not. >>>

abunimah.org

Tom



To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (1156)2/22/2002 9:22:22 PM
From: Thomas M.  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 6945
 
<<< The Dhimmi concept is not about full citizenship this is granted.. However, in its historical context it was a revolutionary forward way of thinking. At a time within Europe was engaged in religious wars and persecutions, the Arab Islamic civilization had the dhimmi concept for dealing with non-Moslems, it even provided a haven for Jews fleeing the Catholic oppression in the 15th century…. It includes:

- Freedom of religious practices. Exemplified by the Covenant between Omar and the Christians of Jerusalem.
- Payment of Jizzieh. (big note, while the Christians paid Al Jezzieh, the Moslems paid al Zakat). More or less that same taxes with different names.
- A proven Hadeeth of the Profit, Man Atha Themian faqad Athani.. He who hurts, a Christian or a Jew, would also hurt me….
- The Quranic verse “La Ikraha fi addin”… there is no compulsion in religion…
- Allowance to enter the Army, as Christian Arabs fought alongside Moslems under Salah Eddin to restore the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, which was driven out by the Crusades.. The first crusade killed 70,000 Arab Christians in Jerusalem because they were “Orthodox Heretics”.

While not all Moslem leaders had this implemented (which gave way to the oppression of the Christians under the non-Arab Ottomans), it must be noted that such framework for coexistence, in the historical context, far exceeded in its tolerance, any other system in the world at that time, including all of Europe.. Certainly, Judaism also doesn’t rise to such a tolerant level…

The natural extension of Dhimmi concept in modern times, is full and equal citizenship… this is a given and is advocated by most mainstream Islamists… this derives from Ijtihad and is very Islamic… What we have is a convergence: An inalienable right of the Christians to be full citizens in their homeland, and an Islamic thought, the religion of the majority, that accepts and supports this right. >>>

groups.google.com



To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (1156)2/22/2002 10:01:18 PM
From: Thomas M.  Respond to of 6945
 
zmag.org

<<< The motive for curfew-closure may be punishment, or to deter possible terrorist action (particularly, after some Israeli atrocity, or for several weeks during the signing of Oslo II). Or simply to liberate Jewish citizens from the annoying presence of the locals, as when the Arab population of Hebron was locked up under 24-hour curfew for 4 days during the Passover holidays in 1995 so that settlers and 35,000 Jewish visitors brought there in chartered buses could have picnics and travel around the city freely, dancing in the streets with public prayers to bring down “the government of the Left,” laying the cornerstone for a new residential building, and indulging in other pleasures under the protective gaze of extra military forces, using the opportunity “to insult the Palestinians imprisoned in their houses and to throw stones at them if they dared to peek out of the windows at the Jews celebrating in their city,” and finally bringing the celebration to a close “by settlers rampaging through the Old City, destroying property, and smashing car windows...in a city magically cleansed...of Palestinians.” “Children, parents and old people are effectively jailed for days in their homes, which in most cases, are seriously overcrowded,” able to turn on their TV sets to “watch a female settler saying happily, `There is a curfew, thank God',” and to hear the “merry dances of settlers” and “festive processions,” some to “the Patriarchs Cave open only to Jews.” Meanwhile “commerce, careers, studies, the family, love -- all are immediately disrupted,” and “the medical system was paralyzed” so that “many sick persons in Hebron were unable to reach hospitals during the curfew and women giving birth could not arrive in time at the clinics” (Yifat Susskind, Israel Shahak, Gideon Levy).

In annexed East Jerusalem, Israel is free to extend its programs to reduce Arab citizens to second-class status. These were devised and implemented by former Mayor Teddy Kollek, much admired here as an outstanding democrat and humanitarian, and are now being extended under his successor, Ehud Olmert of Likud. Their purpose, Kollek's adviser on Arab affairs Amir Cheshin explained, was “placing difficulties in the way of planning in the Arab sector.” “I don't want to give [the Arabs] a feeling of equality,” Kollek elaborated, though it would be worthwhile to do so “here and there, where it doesn't cost us so much”; otherwise “we will suffer.” Kollek's planning commission advised development for Arabs if it would have “a `picture window' effect,” which “will be seen by a large number of people (residents, tourists, etc.).” Kollek informed the Israeli media in 1990 that for the Arabs, he had “nurtured nothing and built nothing,” apart from a sewage system -- which, he hastened to add, was not intended “for their good, for their welfare,” “they” being the Arabs of Jerusalem. Rather, “there were some cases of cholera [in Arab sectors], and the Jews were afraid that they would catch it, so we installed sewage and a water system against cholera.” >>>

Tom



To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (1156)2/23/2002 3:55:54 PM
From: Machaon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 6945
 
<< To date, 272 officers and soldiers of the Israeli army have signed the initiative to refuse to serve the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinians ... >>

The issue of whether or not the Israeli occupation is legal, can be debated. Israel occupied as a result of a war against Israel, or order to protect Israel from terrorist attacks.

If 272 Palestinian officers complain about something, they are murdered. In Israel, a civilized democracy, citizens or soldiers can freely voice their opinions.

The ruthless, terrorist Palestinians allow for no freedom of expression or the press.