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To: kodiak_bull who wrote (6949)	2/24/2002 11:30:27 PM
From: kormac	Respond to of 206104

On property rights !!! progress.org Seppo

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (6949)	2/25/2002 4:31:09 AM
From: LK2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 206104

Off topic (from another thread): OT: Math Teaching Math in 1950: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit? Teaching Math in 1960: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit? Teaching Math in 1970: A logger exchanges a set "L" of lumber for a set "M" of money. The cardinality of set "M" is 100. Each element is worth one dollar. Make 100 dots representing the elements of the set "M." The set "C", the cost of production contains 20 fewer points than set "M." Represent the set "C" as a subset of set "M" and answer the following question: What is the cardinality of the set "P" of profits? Teaching Math in 1980: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20. Teaching Math in 1990: By cutting down beautiful forest trees, the logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the forest birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down the trees? There are no wrong answers. Teaching Math in 2000 A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $120. How does Arthur Andersen determine that his profit margin is $60?

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (6949)	2/25/2002 5:47:17 AM
From: LK2	Respond to of 206104

OT: Why do people keep picking on California? For Personal Use Only >>>>> Monday February 25, 2002 3:23 am Eastern Time California Regulators to Ask FERC to Void Power Contracts By: Rebecca Smith, Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal California utility regulators said they will file two complaints at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission today asking that FERC void about $40 billion of power-supply contracts signed last year when, the state says, the energy market was being manipulated by sellers. The complaints, to be filed under Section 206 of the Federal Power Act, provide no new evidence of market manipulation but come at a time when California Gov. Gray Davis is up for re-election and taking heat for the contracts negotiated by his staff. Those contracts obligate the state to pay double and triple today's market rate for electricity. It also comes when big independent power producers and traders are being cast as villains due to the collapse of Enron Corp. On Sunday, the president of the Public Utilities Commission, the general counsel for the state's Electricity Oversight Board and representatives of the governor's office charged that "FERC's indifference" in 2000 and 2001 caused California 's market failure and said the state was forced to sign high-price contracts as a result, beginning in January 2001 , to keep the lights on. Barry Goode, attorney for Mr. Davis, says the state now wants FERC to void 32 contracts with 22 sellers, after permitting a kind of grace period during which the state could negotiate sharply lower prices. The complaints name, among others, units of Calpine Corp. (NYSE: CPN - news) , Mirant Corp. and Williams Cos (NYSE: WMB - news) ., as well as Dynegy Inc. These companies have denied manipulating the market. Calpine, the biggest supplier, signed deals permitting it to collect prices of $58 and $61 per megawatt hour, about double today's spot-market price that reflects slack demand due to the recession. Jim Macias, senior vice president for Calpine, said his firm repeatedly has offered to renegotiate lower prices, to no avail. "While we don't welcome the complaints, we're happy the state filed at FERC where there at least will be an orderly process" for deciding the merits of the case, he said. Loretta Lynch, president of the PUC, said FERC's inaction in reining in a runaway wholesale market in mid-2000 "allowed gougers and gamers to come in" the California market. The state's current position ignores the fact that much of the structure of the California market previously was approved by her predecessors at the PUC and by the state legislature. At the time the contracts were signed, critics said the state was signing too many and for time periods that were too long. In effect, they said it was creating a long-term fix for the short term problem of skyrocketing energy prices brought on by inadqequate supply coupled with surging demand in the then- vibrant economy. Brushing aside such criticism, the governor's office said the prices were reasonable and he praised sellers like Calpine for coming to the table. In its filing this week, the state walks a rocky path. It is arguing at FERC that the contracts are neither "just" nor "reasonable" as required by the Federal Power Act. Yet within the state, it is arguing for rate-making purposes that the costs of those contracts are in fact "just and reasonable" and that retail consumers must pay to uphold them. If the contracts are voided, it could have a significant impact on companies like Calpine that already are reeling from a low stock price and constricted capital markets. Copyright (c) 2002 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- More Quotes and News: Calpine Corp (NYSE:CPN - news) Dynegy Inc (NYSE:DYN - news) Mirant Corp (NYSE:MIR - news) The Williams Companies Inc (NYSE:WMB - news) <<<<<

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (6949)	2/25/2002 9:30:32 AM
From: kollmhn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 206104

"tort law gives consistency and confidence to protection in our property and ourselves against negligence and intentional harm (damages in both cases are almost completely property based, you run your car over my foot, you pay, you run your car into my kitchen, you pay)." Well.............maybe somtimes. Calf. was begging for long term contracts. Now, (that prices are back down) it's CPN's fault that they wrote them when prices were high. How about, the widow that is suing VW for falire to have a lap belt in the car even though it regular sealbelt. what happened? Well, the old man was stone drunk, slammmed into a tree at 40 mph and well, he got what he deserved. Whe like VW to pay , though.

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (6949)	2/25/2002 2:04:36 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 206104

Hi KB, Excellent discussion of the "takings" issue. Thanks. What do you think of the speculators who've bought up large swaths of the Carolina beach front, in spite of all sensible appreciation of the fact that any McMansions developed there would be prone to being destroyed in sea surges in regularly scheduled hurricane incidents, demanding that they be provided a profit from the counties that sensibly have curtailed said development? In other words, if a speculator is gaming the system, knows that his scheme is fraudelently conceived and has brass balls, should the community bend over for such boorish behavior, and reward it with compensation? Just wondering, Ray