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Pastimes : Understanding Islam -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: lorne who wrote (1269)	3/3/2002 1:28:29 AM
From: Grandk	Respond to of 2926

Galatians 4 21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. 24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband." 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." 31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

To: lorne who wrote (1269)	3/3/2002 2:24:08 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2926

lorne, Thanks for the post! Firstly, the statement, "All three major religions worship the same God. The God of abraham", is a lie. I will admit, both are truly monothestic and hold strongly to the concept. But thats where the similiarity ends. It a carefully implanted lie into the minds of many. But Allah is not the same god as the Judeo-Christian God, and the characteristics of Allah and the Judeo-Christian God are very, very different. Read the Islamic scripture verses the Bible and it is easily seen. Secondly, this biblical verse sums up who the chosen son was: Genesis 17 18 And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!" 19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. Genesis 17 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year." Now let me show you something interesting. I believe the promise made to Ishmael was fulfilled totally. Here is why: 1. "I will surely bless him" The Arabs are definitely blessed with approxiametly 75% of the oil supply in the world. 2. "I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers" As of late 80's there were 167 million Arabs. (That is what I call exceedingly multiplying!) I don't have the more current numbers, but I am sure they prove the point even further! 3."He will be the father of twelve rulers" There are many more countries than 12 claiming to be Arab. So there are at least 12 princes. 4. "and I will make him into a great nation" I think if you look into your history books, in the seventh to twelfth century the Muslim Empire fulfilled being a great nation. So as the Ishmael scripture and promises were met, I think it is safe to assume that the Isaac promises are correct also. Or are we supposed to say, we choose to believe one, but not the other? But I agree with the theme that this comes down to a family feud, between the two sons of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, that causes our main problem. And to solve any problem, one must address the root of the problem to come up with a solution. Treating the symptoms won't fix it! So it is important to understand the fundamental root of the problem, as described, and dealing with who is right and wrong here? That is the proper starting point, in my opinion. God Bless, IGIT

To: lorne who wrote (1269)	3/3/2002 7:28:28 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Respond to of 2926

lorne, "All three major religions worship the same God. The God of abraham." Quran: Allah is unknowable. Bible: God is knowable. Quran: Allah is nonpersonal. Bible: God is personal. Quran: Allah is not a spirit. Bible: God is a Spirit. Quran: Allah is not a Father, nor Jesus the Son of God. Bible: God is one existing in three persons, not three gods, but one God. Quran: Allah can do anything with no limitations. Bible: God cannot go against His immutable nature e.g. God cannot lie. Quran: Allah is capricious. Bible: God is trustworthy. Quran: Allah has no feelings towards man. Bible: God loves man. Quran: Allah doesn't personally enter human history. Bible: God came incarnate to bring about man's salvation. Quran: Allah provides no saviour or intecessor. You're on your own. No concept of grace. Bible: God provided a Saviour through His manifold grace. [Taken from Jesus Is Lord Ministries] I remembered reading this once and thought it was a good starting point in illustrating why the God of the Bible is not the same god as Allah. God Bless, IGIT