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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (1385)	3/6/2002 11:11:59 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

I have described various aspects of Judaism or Catholicism, with which I am the most familiar, which make the doctrines less exclusive. I am loathe to continually reiterate.....

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (1385)	3/6/2002 1:42:39 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

World religions are so institutionalized as to command loyalty among the citizenry of cultural groups. Because the groups are historically isolated by regions of the planet this also becomes entangled with nationalism or some other form of groupism. Even if the groups are not isolated by physical borders they may form a culturally exclusive community within society. The groups often find themselves, as all groups do, struggling with other groups to achieve a respected status in the world or even for the real estate needed to thrive (ex: Israel and Palestine or Northern Ireland and England). When a group perceives a threat from outside, it is understandable that they would strategize and act to dispel that threat. This is likely to strengthen the loyalty of group members to their group and in opposition to another group. Issues that are not necessarily ideologically opposed, become issues held up during saber rattling. Members of the group that would not normally be concerned with the theological differences between the groups may become outspoken for their group and active against another group simply out of the need to support the community. A great deal of band wagoning and bolstering of the group cause strengthens the community. Fringe members are likely to say or do things that are ideologically inconsistent with the belief system at the foundation of the group (ex: lets go bomb Mecca). At this point we begin to see three types of group members claiming belief: 1) The group member who strongly believes in the need for his group to survive and win against any threats and is willing to compromise the founding principles of the group to accomplish this end. 2) The group member who will support the group in any efforts to stave off threats, short of compromising the principles of the group doctrine. 3) The group member that believes in the principles of the group but is not swayed by feelings of loyalty to the group itself. If we are talking about a religious group: Group member number 1 worships the group (nationalism) and may or may not even be informed on the principles of faith. Group member number one may believe that he is worshipping God and God’s religion but in fact violates doctrinal commandments of God for the sake of group loyalty. So, IMO this extremist worships the religion and not God. Group member number 2 worships the group and the principles on which it is founded and believes the community of the members is worthy of loyalty. A poorly educated group member number 2 “may” become influenced by propaganda campaigns that play on his lack of affluence and understanding of other groups. This person is not necessarily an extremist but may become naively caught up in an extremist movement. Thank God for God’s mercy. Group member number three worships the principles of faith that are the foundations of the religion and attempts to apply them even handedly regardless of group positioning. IMO your remarks/criticisms of believers has been directed at persons who fit in category number 1. Your complaints would better be directed at persons who identify with this type of belief system than simply at persons who believe in God (category number three). Unless you really have a problem with believing in higher ideals founded on decent principles of living as a guiding force in some people’s lives. Perhaps a smaller or more pointed brush would help.