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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: AlienTech who wrote (20949)	3/9/2002 8:52:38 AM
From: maceng2	Respond to of 281500

but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this. Why? You know this for a fact? Does both the FBI and the CIA report to you?? You must be a real senior guy in the USA Government!

To: AlienTech who wrote (20949)	3/9/2002 9:05:20 AM
From: AlienTech	Respond to of 281500

U.S. Works Up Plan for Using Nuclear Arms Military: Administration, in a secret report, calls for a strategy against at least seven nations: China, Russia, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and Syria. "This clearly makes nuclear weapons a tool for fighting a war, rather than deterring them," said Cirincione. latimes.com

To: AlienTech who wrote (20949)	3/9/2002 11:30:28 AM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 281500

I have read a transcript of part of the recording from the black box of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. So that argument is bogus. thepittsburghchannel.com The black boxes from the WTC haven't been found, but that should be no surprise to anyone. I think they found the black box from the one that hit the Pentagon but I haven't read any transcripts of that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The hijackers were not listed as passengers when the news media released the information, but they were indeed on the manifests. My understanding of the distinction made was that 1) these men should not be considered passengers, as they were murderous hijackers, 2) no one was sure what their real names were. You would not call the crew passengers, either. So that argument is bogus. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You can't learn how to fly a jumbo jet using Microsoft flight simulator. It doesn't tell you where all the controls are for particular planes, nor how to operate them. Don't you think it's damning evidence that they did not learn how to take off, nor how to land? They just wanted to familarize themselves with the controls. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I just wasted valuable time on this, I think I'll just put you on Ignore and let you rave.

To: AlienTech who wrote (20949)	3/9/2002 12:46:18 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The CIA supposedly monitors these kinds of unusual stock transactions.. Yes, and no.. It's my understanding that FinCen and the SEC (and affiliated agencies within the Federal Reserve handling the financial settlements for such transactions) work to piece together a financial paper trail of such transactions and who, how, and why they were enacted. But that's not sufficient proof unless the party can be directly linked to terrorist organizations or some kind of foreknowledge of the attack. But you are FINALLY tracking on something that, imo, is very pertinent to unraveling the financial connections between these organizations and who stood to gain from it. And I have little doubt that we're doing just that. And should we find some other sinister "James Bondish-like" evil conspiracy similar to the fictitious "S.P.E.C.T.R.E", I kinda doubt we'll handle them through legal means. I dare say they will be handled covertly, and with "extreme prejudice". At least I hope that will be the case, since a bullet is far less expensive than a minute of legal billing time spent to prosecute them. To date, the identity of the person or persons, who were involved in these option and stock transactions, have not been made public. Nor should they since this is a criminal investigation and tipping off other parties that certain individuals are under scrutiny might compromise getting all the facts. It was also reported that a $2,500,000 profit from one of the option trades has not been claimed by the person who made that trade. This is one of the smoking guns that I'm sure someone is looking at closely. The problem is it, lacking public information, few of us can make any analysis as to whether it was a person, or corporate entity acting as a front, which made the unclaimed transaction. And if was made through an off-shore entity such as a channel islands account, it may be difficult to discover who the actual individual is that is responsible for the transaction. Theoretically, it could be a rogue trader, privy to such information and acting as a facilitator for these terror groups, that made the trade, using some unwitting comporation or bank he worked for as his/her vehicle. It may seem easy Alientech, but the legalities can be quite complex, especially with regard to convincing government officials to violate their domestic banking privacy laws to provide such information to the US. That generally requires political pressure and hard evidence of wrong-doing. And providing such hard evidence may cause the US to reveal "sources and methods" it would much rather keep secret. As to why people were permitted to make phone calls, it's pretty clear. The hijackers wanted the world to know that the planes had been hijacked. Why keep that a secret? What's a more compelling question is whether those hijackers keeping the passengers at bay, really knew that they were on a one-way mission or merely conducting a hijacking from which they might negotiate their way out of. The case remains open on that... and we'll likely never know. Btw, Ariana airlines doesn't fly 767s.. In fact, the only airplane they apparently still have in their fleet is a VERY old 727. cnn.com Hawk

To: AlienTech who wrote (20949)	3/9/2002 2:16:53 PM
From: AlienTech	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. "I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said. "I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said. cnn.com In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the World Trade Center, a passport authorities said belonged to one of the hijackers was discovered a few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. That has prompted the FBI and police to widen the search area beyond the immediate crash site. ("Leaders urge 'normal' Monday after week of terror ..., September 16, 2001 Posted: 7:07 p.m. EDT (2307 GMT) cnn.com We are asked to believe that one of the hijackers brought his passport with him on a domestic fight, even though he knew he would not need it then, or ever again; that upon impact the passport flew from the hijacker's pocket (or was he holding it in his hands?), that the passport flew out of the aircraft, that it flew out of the burning tower, and that it was carried by the air currents and landed safely, where it could be discovered, several blocks away ... rense.com >> an intresting narrative By Carol A. Valentine, Curator, Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum , I dont belive her version except that what we are being told are lies lies and more lies. << --------------------------- Someone whos commited the worst act of terrorism denies involmenet? Why?? It would be his chance to jump up and down with the thousands of sleeper cells ready to take over the world! Havent we been told constantly he has NOT denied involment?? and whats amazing still is he forgot to issue any demands. And for a man who looks after details his minions have been sadly lacking in most things including much intelligence or morals for some who are fanatics.. To fly a plane, Like leaving suicide notes in luggages that are left behind in their car or not get on the plane and even notes to be found after the crash.. Maybe they wanted a change of clothing while swiming in the hellfire? Why does the taliban just leave? After all the US bombs Iraq every day! A ruthless repressive regime does not care if civilians die, with 25 million civilians there is a lot left to die, not that they arent ruthless or repressive but its strange they would say just get up and leave even with intense bombings and raids, after all the nazi's didnt and even after suffering over 70% casualties they still fought the russians! It just creates more sympathy for them because some outsiders are bombing and KILLING them, destroying their food and shelter. As seen by the violence in the refuge camps in pakistan against westerners and iraq citizens, the more bombs the madder the civilian population gets, not at their own governments but at those who are bombing them. I am sure we will never know the truth since the trail of huge amounts of money since the 90's all went to a few to fund something big.. All that money is still somewhere.. But we will know the result in 50 years or so.. But for that to happen first we need the resources of russia..

To: AlienTech who wrote (20949)	3/9/2002 6:36:14 PM
From: Math Junkie	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The article at your first link makes the following claims, among others: "No US military planes were sent up to intercept any of the hijacked planes even though there were at least 30 minutes to one hour from the time it was known that the planes were hijacked. Much has been written about this by the alternatve free press on the internet. It is standard procedure for military planes to be sent up if a plane is off course and the plane is not or cannot communicate with ground control. This is just normal safety protocol because if a plane starts flying in a different flight pattern, it could crash into another plane in the sky. The big question is who gave the order to not "scramble" US military jets under these emergency and highly-dangerous conditions? If you think Bin Laden could have done this sitting in some cave in Afghanistan - think again. The only people who could have pulled this one off are high-ranking government officials who were part of the plan of the real "Mastermind" behind the attacks. My response: I am an instrument-rated pilot and I can tell you that this would all come as a great surprise to the airline pilots I know. Military planes WERE sent up to intercept. They were unable to get there in time. Given the unprecedented nature of the attacks, you have to allow for the time for people to figure out what was happening and that a military response was required. You also have to allow for the fact that until the first plane hit a building, no one knew that the hijackers had an objective that would justify a shoot-down of an airline full of passengers. It could be that it is now "standard procedure" for military planes to be sent up if an airliner is off course and out of communication, but this most definitely was not the case before September 11th. Federal regulations specify procedures for an airplane on an instrument flight plan that loses communication. One of its provisions specifically allows the plane to land elsewhere than its planned destination if it can be done in visual flight conditions. See 14 CFR 91.185(b): frwebgate.access.gpo.gov The justification given concerning the possibility of collision with other air traffic is also wrong. My air traffic controller friends have told me that their normal practice in cases of lost communication is to watch where the plane goes and clear other traffic out of the way. On September 11th, they did have some communication with the airliners to give them cause for suspicion, but they still had no way of knowing that the hijackers planned to intentionally crash the planes until the first one hit. In view of the above, the idea that someone gave an "order" to not scramble planes is complete baloney. When I find so much that is made from whole cloth in one area of which I have specific knowledge, I have to conclude that the entire article is probably made from the same cloth.