To: Raymond Duray who wrote (3271 ) 3/14/2002 9:19:23 PM From: Hawkmoon Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 3536 Raymond.. The US CREATED THE UN. THE US CREATED THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS!!! Not the rest of the world.. THE USofA!! Without the US, the UN would not exist... Get it??!!! And we even went so far, in the interest of peace and global stability, as to permit totalitarian regimes such as the Soviet Union, to have seats on the security council with veto authority. The UN is based in NYC, and the US bears the largest cost for its expenses, as well as logistical support for any peace-keeping efforts it undertakes. So don't tell me that our relations with the UN are appalling. It's the other way around, imo. But the entire structure of the UN is flawed. It permits non-democratic nations to have a say in what policies and resolutions are enacted, thus ensuring their own ability to perpetuate their oppression, or at least forestall having to reduce it. If the UN was so democratically inclined, it would not have granted Syria a seat on the security council, it being a totalitarian state. Permitting non-democratic states, which constitutes a large portion of the world to have an equal say in a democratic institution like the UN is just sheer insanity. I don't question the validity and value of the Marshall Plan post-WWII. But you should question it.. Because the US rebuilt Germany in order to have them as an ally against the Soviets. The other plan that Morgenthau was advocating was to completely deindustrialize Germany, leaving it an agrarian economy forever. Furthermore, the US placed military bases all over Europe, claiming they were necessary in order to protect the continent from a Soviet invasion. But using your disjointed logic, the US shouldn't have had those bases there, or anywhere else. And where were those "innocent populations" when they enticed the US and other major economic powers to loan them billions of dollars in developmental loans that they just pilfered and plundered, eventually defaulting and leaving the west holding the bag?? They effectively "stole" that investor money from the US taxpayers, another innocent population that was trying to assist them. And I think you're full of crap when you claim we're "coercive".. If you want to see "coercive" why aren't you complaining about China trying to coerce Taiwan into reunifying?? How about North Korea wishing to forcibly reunite the south? Were it not for US military bases located in the region, there would be nothing to stop them from carrying out their desires. And the world is already in turmoil. We're not creating it Ray... It already exists. In fact, that's the normal state of being for the world, especially when nations like the US and Europe don't work to maintain stability. And the Soviet Union was one of the big contributors to that turmoil, spreading cheap weapons far and wide... After all, how often do we see Russian and Chinese made Kalishnikovs being wielded by various extremist groups?? A hell of a lot more of those weapons are floating around than are US arms. When the US sells arms to other nations, it generally a situation where we're attempting to lock those nations into US provided spare parts and maintenance, which tends to limit how those weapons are used. But if the US didn't sell them, the Russians and Chinese, as well as the Europeans, would be standing by to sell them.. And in that instance we'd have NO INFLUENCE over how those weapons would be used. Thus, I'd rather be the one that sells them weapons. If they don't want us to "meddle" then don't buy weapons from us. As for what the rest of the world cares about... When they have millions of people trying to become citizens of their country, then maybe I'll start to pay attention. I'm wiling to help them out as much as possible, but I'm not about to let them spit in my face at the same time they are asking me for help. There's no way I'm going to try and claim that every policy action conducted by an American administration was correct, or the best choice (look at the last one we had bombing aspirin factories). But there's no way you will ever be able to make a convincing argument that the US is responsible for the greatest evil on this planet, while completely ignoring those other totalitarian regimes who killed hundreds of millions of people over the past 60 years... Regimes which, had they not been opposed by the US and the allies it rebuilt and rearmed, would have dominated the entire globe and ultimately dominated us as well. Nature abhors a vacuum.. Power works the same way... If the US reduces its influence, other regimes with less democratic ideas will replace us. If we no longer possess the means to defend other nations from their agressive neighbors, they will be conquered by other powerful regimes. I'm sorry Raymond... anyone with half a brain should realize that. And the fact that you haven't learned such truths based upon your lifes experience with human nature is a said statement of how disconnected you are from reality. Hawk