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To: Bill who wrote (3737)	3/20/2002 4:16:20 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Source?

To: Bill who wrote (3737)	3/20/2002 5:12:36 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Gawd... "Rusty" on "Oprah"..... I think I'm gonna puke.

To: Bill who wrote (3737)	3/20/2002 6:34:08 PM
From: E	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 21057

<I have seen no data suggesting that imposing capital punishment on a jurisdiction that previously did not have it results in decreased crime rates.> Try New York. Since capital punishment was implemented a few years ago, murder is down significantly. I assume you know that you have shown no cause and effect whatever in the above statement. Since I got silver threads among the gold a few years ago, murder is down significantly. Perhaps if I dye my whole body silver we'll have world peace? <g> Here are some stats with more meaning: the show the ratio of executions to the national murder rate. Tables are difficult, at least for me, but please do scan it at least! From Bedau: CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS NOT A DETERRENT TO MURDER Ratio of Executions to the National Murder Rate: 1976-1995 YEAR ~ # OF EXECUTIONS ~ NATIONAL MURDER RATE 1976 0 8.8 1977 1 8.8 1978 0 9 1979 2 9.7 1980 0 10.2 1981 1 9.8 1982 2 9.1 1983 5 8.3 1984 21 7.9 1985 18 7.9 1986 18 8.6 1987 25 8.3 1988 11 8.3 1989 16 8.7 1990 23 9.4 1991 14 9.8 1992 31 9.3 1993 38 9.5 1994 31 9 1995 56 8

To: Bill who wrote (3737)	3/20/2002 6:49:02 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

How does one make half a post word wrap and the other fixed font, anybody know? More on the subject of deterrence, and a followup to your New York State "evidence": <In Oklahoma... reintroduction of executions in 1990 may have produced "an abrupt and lasting increase in the level of stranger homicides" in the form of "one additional stranger-homicide incident per month." > <between l990 and l994, the homicide rates in Wisconsin and Iowa (non-death-penalty states) were half the rates of their neighbor, Illinois – which restored the death penalty in l973, and by 1994 had sentenced 223 persons to death and carried out two executions.7> (Bedau link)

To: Bill who wrote (3737)	3/20/2002 6:52:33 PM
From: E	Respond to of 21057

I'm not sure who mentioned police deaths they presumed to find linked to the absence of a death penalty, but here's something on that: <On-duty police officers do not suffer a higher rate of criminal assault and homicide in abolitionist states than they do in death-penalty states. Between l973 and l984, for example, lethal assaults against police were not significantly more, or less, frequent in abolitionist states than in death-penalty states. There is "no support for the view that the death penalty provides a more effective deterrent to police homicides than alternative sanctions. Not for a single year was evidence found that police are safer in jurisdictions that provide for capital punishment."8< and <Prisoners and prison personnel do not suffer a higher rate of criminal assault and homicide from life-term prisoners in abolition states than they do in death-penalty states. Between 1992 and 1995, 176 inmates were murdered by other prisoners; the vast majority (84%) were killed in death penalty jurisdictions. During the same period about 2% of all assaults on prison staff were committed by inmates in abolition jurisdictions.9 Evidently, the threat of the death penalty "does not even exert an incremental deterrent effect over the threat of a lesser punishment in the abolitionist states."10>

To: Bill who wrote (3737)	3/20/2002 7:29:09 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Please read these links before you post them. The New York murder rate peaked in 1990, 5 years before the death penalty was returned. The post-1995 decline was a continuation of a trend established well before the legislation was passed. You will see from the page you posted that the decline in murders between 1990 and 1995 - before the death penalty was brought back - was significantly greater than the decline between 1995 and 2000, and that the 2000 figure was higher than that for 1999. You won't get any causative relationship out of those numbers. Better luck next time.