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Pastimes : THE SLIGHTLY MODERATED BOXING RING -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (3843)	3/20/2002 8:58:20 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Maybe we should invite you know who over to this thread and give Neo a chance to see the contrast between him and us up close and personal. <g>

To: Dayuhan who wrote (3843)	3/20/2002 9:36:37 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Steven - From your quote of Neo - "those with clear orientations, who think that religion is bad and oppressive and superstitious and polarizing, and who think that atheism or agnosticism is rational and humane and heroic and liberating, pretend that they are somehow more objective than I am, fail to make a serious effort to engage the points on the table, and merely resort to accustomed forms of ridicule, in essence. To me, they may as well be Jew- haters" This could be interpreted as "those who say religions is bad and oppressive and superstitious and polarizing, and who ridicule religion and religious people are haters of religion and/or religious people", combined with "haters of religion and religious people may as well be Jew-haters". To support your side of the case I would say such a statement misses the distinction between hating religion or organized religions, and hating religious people, but to be fair if someone tried to argue that he was not an anti-Semite because he loves Jews as people even as he hates Judaism, he probably would find that his audience in many places was unsympathetic. The other argument I see against the idea is the question does the combination of opposing something, and disliking it, and ridiculing it amount to hating it or at least something roughly as bad as hating it? I would say it isn't the same as hating it, as to whether it is just as bad (or in other words if it "might as well be" the same thing) I'm not sure I have a good answer right now. I would probably say that a good case could be made that really viscous ridicule could be in some ways as bad as hatred. This would leave the question of does Neo think that the people on this thread have engaged in really viscous ridicule of religion on a regular basis. I can't answer that question, and I probably wont comment on this further unless Neo responds. I will say that I have seen some ridcule along those lines on SI, including on the old boxing ring, but I can't recall seeing it here. Tim