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To: player203 who wrote (42284)	3/29/2002 1:31:52 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Respond to of 50167

If you are able to make 500$'s a day on a day capital of 50,000 just stick to the winning streak, I for one will not be able to make a better call, keep it up and don't worry about 1,000 a day or 10,000 a day the risks multiply exponentially. On one fine morning someone making 10,000 a day can end up losing the entire 50,000$ that is the little lesson I know from these what my friends call a very fickle market.

To: player203 who wrote (42284)	3/30/2002 3:43:18 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50167

Hi player203; I think you're overtrading a bit. That means that I think that you're putting on positions that are too large for your capital. There are 5 reasons why a trade should be limited in shares. (1) The stock is illiquid beyond that number of shares. It doesn't sound like you're in violation on this one, unless you're trying to scalp 500 shares and you can't make 500 share transactions. I wouldn't worry too much about this one. (2) There's an exchange restriction that limits the number of shares that you can buy or sell. This is not going to be a problem for you unless you play with really nasty BB stocks, or grow your capital significantly. (3) You can't buy that many shares because your trading capital won't support that many shares on margin (or cash I suppose). With 3 stocks at $30 per share and 500 shares, the total buy / sell cost is $45,000.00, which is well under your margin limit. You could double your trade size by getting a margin account, or 4x it depending on where you have the account. (4) You should avoid putting on positions that risk more than 2% of your trading capital at a time. This is because even profitable traders that trade with risks greater than this amount eventually ruin themselves in the market by an inevitable string of bad luck. With $50,000.00, your 2% limit is $1000.00, so you can't afford to lost more than that on a single trade. With 500 share stocks and a daily range of $1, you're only risking $500, so this does not provide a limit on your share size. You could double your trade sizes and still be reasonable, provided that your trades were not all correlated. (Example, you put your money into 3 different tech stocks.) (5) Irrespective of the above limits, if you don't have a proven record of profitability in a type of trade sufficient to beat commissions at larger share sizes, you should trade that type of trade with a minimum share size. A good minimum share size would be 10 or 100 shares, depending on how your execution happens. Beginners who trade larger than the minimum tend to lose their money before they learn to trade. The important thing for a learner is not to make money, but instead only to survive. If you survive long enough you will gain experience and you will probably eventually learn to make money. But even after you learn to make money you will still have to follow the 5 rules of money management to avoid having nasty draw downs. Beginners need to find brokerages that have very low commissions for very small share sizes. Do not think that you have found the cheapest commissions until you have looked under every stone. The best companies are not advertising. If you don't have a good history (300 distinct trades) of profitable trading, don't worry about finding the company that will provide you the best commissions for 1000 shares of $30 stocks. When you have proven yourself on 100 and 10 share trades, you can change brokerages at very little cost. If you make three trades per day, the 300 trades will go by in a few months. When you calculate your profit and loss on these trades don't use the commissions you actually paid. Instead use the profits and losses that you would have made if you'd instead traded 500 or 1000 shares. If it looks like you'll be profitable at 500 or 1000 shares, then double your share size. (From 100 shares to 200 shares.) Then trade that size for a month. If your system still works, then double again. Keep increasing your share size until it is limited by one of the 5 fundamental limits on share size. Keep accurate records. Keep records of your trading average for each day, and keep averages for weeks etc. When you're trading 10 or 100 shares, don't act as if the money doesn't mean enough to you to bother with. If you can't control yourself to play the game with 10 or 100 shares, you definitely can't control yourself to play the game with "big" money. Best of luck. I'd wait until you had more capital to start trading, unless you have another source of income or another big pile of capital. The most expensive item for someone learning to trade should be their living expenses. Even when a trader is completely new to the game and completely unable to make a single profitable trade, the cost of trading should be low, if you trade a small enough number of shares and find a brokerage with suitable commissions. When working out your share limit, think in terms of volatility rather than position size or share count. For example, if you're trading a stock that is $50 instead of $25, you need to halve your share size, assuming the same relative volatility. But if you switch from a $25 stock that moves up and down $5 per day to a $50 stock that moves up and down $5 per day, keep your position size the same, (after you learn the new stock). Trading is exciting to new traders, but it should become routine in a matter of months. Try to be alert and conscientious at all times. If you're easily bored, trading may not be a good idea. People who are emotional should avoid trading. Etc. Best of luck. Tell us how it turns out. -- Carl

To: player203 who wrote (42284)	3/30/2002 8:28:47 AM
From: JEB	Respond to of 50167

Do you know the movie, 'Saving Private Ryan'? Welcome to the war. Keep your head down kid. Whatever you do, don't salute anyone. Got your pencil? K, ...lets go!

To: player203 who wrote (42284)	3/30/2002 3:00:41 PM
From: JEB	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50167

This took me a little while to compile but I'll try to make it as succinct and useful as is possible. In the beginning, ...there was Money Management: This is a good source of information on trading psychology and money management technique. Dr. Alexander Elder lays out the techniques brilliantly and yet, it is an interesting read as well. elder.com Do not pass on this information if you wish to keep your money currently in your portfolio. Next on the list of "must have" for 2002: Your computer setup is critical for daytrading. A minimum of three screens is necessary (you can never have enough screens). Contact this guy for a good system. Member 4353715 Staying on top of the game: News and live feed for Level II/III with access to futures contracts (SPOOS) use this professional service. They offer real time news feed, as well and preset alerts for your stocks. Point and click trading is available through most brokers with this system. esignal.com Note - your ISP plays a big role in this connection as well and choose a super fast service. I have ADSL but had configuration problems with my ISP because the trading system software I was using (not Esignal) used tunneling protocol and was incompatible with the DSL system at that time. Get to know stocks: The fundamental analysis of a stock is important to when you should sell (I know all you Technicians are screaming "heretic" at me now, so be it). Soak up as much of this knowledge as possible before trading. elder.com Since you are daytrading, this will not be used in your trades but is a must for rounded knowledge, ...it's worth it to learn this. Viewing the trades In Level II/III: Just getting Level II/III service is not enough. Now that you have it, what to do with it? streetsideinvestor.com Read every single article Mr. LaBier has on this website. ...and now for everyone's favorite subject: Charting with indicators and patterns is an important tool, especially for scalping. Perhaps you prefer P&F, or maybe Candlestick patterns. Try here for a little online help. stockcharts.com Finally, getting out of trouble: I recommend choosing a broker that offers Instanet service (INCA). There's nothing like getting out of a bad trade quick and having a back up market sometimes helps. streetsideinvestor.com Oh, and one other thing, bookmark this thread. Man, you are lucky you stumbled onto Ike's thread. Ike (Mr. Iqbal Latif) knows more about trading, the techniques used, and general market sentiment than most other professional traders I have run across and far beyond most on these boards. I've seen an awful lot of them come and go but this guy is the real thing. Stop in now and then to read his market posts. Prove my statement wrong. BTW, that wasn't a salute, ...just the truth!