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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: axial who wrote (22695)	3/30/2002 4:59:19 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

For how long? How many months, or years, until the citizens of Israel are again faced with the same unrelenting attacks and hostility? How many years can they live in a state of constant alert, in an armed camp? For however long as it takes until the opposing side recognizes that war and aggression is not the solution to inter-cultural and geographic disputes. The US and its allies won WWII, but then found itself embroiled in a cold war. Now we're embroiled in a war of terrorism aimed at destroying the western values we fought so many wars to preserve. So when does it end? It never ends. It hasn't ended for the US.. And it will never end until each and every nation on this planet shares the same values that most western nations share. A respect for human life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. For the property rights of others, and a legal system that we all abide by and respect. There a very good reason that we haven't seen a truly democratic state engage in warfare against another. Because states that are truly governed "by the people" are states that will choose any other course except to engage in war. At least that has been the case thus far. Hawk

To: axial who wrote (22695)	3/30/2002 5:04:44 PM
From: FaultLine	Respond to of 281500

Hello Jim, Excellent posts today. "Truth" has been lost in the consituencies. There is no truth, any more. There is no possibility of "truth". There is no longer any possibility of "justice". I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Even though I have a firm belief in my view of the "truth" and of "history" none of this seems very relevant anymore -- playing the blame game gets us absolutely nowhere. It appears that everyone will just have to take things as they are and try to come to some hardnosed and universally distasteful accommodation. --fl

To: axial who wrote (22695)	3/30/2002 5:53:11 PM
From: SirRealist	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>>I believe it is wiser to do it now.<< So do I but it takes two to negotiate. Arafat only proposes to begin a ceasefire just after 130 have been wounded by his team, for the sole purpose of trying to make Israel look like the aggressor and to drum up support. I figure his bank account must be low for him to be televangelizing so. As to the suggestion that thousands or millions must die, the history of Israeli military force does not support that conclusion, unless you speak of the potential cumulative numbers over decades. I agree that truth is gone and justice cannot be had. >>until the citizens of Israel are again faced with the same unrelenting attacks and hostility? How many years can they live in a state of constant alert, in an armed camp?<< At least as long as the Holocaust is remembered. My impression is that Jewish people have been on alert for centuries. >>Israel may well choose to lash out, perhaps with nuclear arms, as you and others would have it.<< Nuclear force has been utilized on two days in August1945, arguably as a defensive measure. Were my country on the verge of extinction, I think it's an acceptable last line of defense. I see nothing to suggest they'd use it offensively, and do not propose it. Negotiating for peace is a great concept, but I've not seen much effort from Arafat to do that, since the day he won the Peace prize. There is no doubt that we're witnessing a rising spiral of violence with no clear end in sight. But creating a unilateral peace is not possible. So where does one begin?