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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (23068)	4/2/2002 12:42:29 AM
From: frankw1900	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Nadine, sure. I've been saying something like that for months. He says it better. It's an ideological war and the believers have to be led to give up the ideology. This usually requires some kind of defeat, often military, but not necessarily - see Soviets. Given certain parts of the Middle East have declared war on the modern world, and are acting on it, we should take them at face value and act sensibly to defeat them. The response should include, but also go far beyond military or traditional diplomatic ones. The greater the delay, the more loss of life and materiel and the greater our chance of defeat.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (23068)	4/2/2002 5:18:58 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

There is No Substitute for Victory The American Military has learned this the hard way in Vietnam. Now I guess the Israeli Military is going to learn it the hard way too. They are not doing things that I would have thought they knew they had to do. 1) Exclude the press and all "Peace Groups" during the operation. 2) Have a plan in advance of exactly what they were going to do with Arafat. 3) Go in as quickly as possible and get it done. The World Wide Press is taking them apart and it is their own fault for not handling them better. All they can do now is keep going and sweat it out.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (23068)	4/3/2002 2:27:06 PM
From: Math Junkie	Respond to of 281500

I think Daniel Pipes is onto something. There certainly has been an air of unreality about the publicly expressed perceptions of the conflict so far. Perhaps that is fed by the U.S. Government's desire to finesse things so as not to sufficiently piss off the Arabs to bring them to the point of declaring an oil embargo. On the other hand, it's refreshing to see someone telling it like it is. It's certainly obvious enough that the Palestinians are determined to make war on the Israelis, and they seem to have had unrealistic expectations about the outcome. Whether it's due to a desire to overthrow an occupier or a desire to destroy a neighbor, or both, is almost immaterial at this point. Anyone who thinks Israel will not defend itself is dreaming. I do think that the Israelis have done a piss-poor job of occupation, though. Once they agreed to that pie-in-the sky scheme known as the Oslo accords, it seems like the present troubles were inevitable. (I admit that this is easy to say in hindsight, by the way.) I wonder if it will be possible for them to remove the Palestinian Authority from power, rule the occupied territories firmly and intelligently enough to keep explosives out of the hands of the suicidal, and still provide the freedom and incentives necessary for prosperity to develop in those territories? I guess I'm engaging in a little pie-in-the sky of my own.