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To: Poet who wrote (6479)	4/3/2002 9:59:45 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Where have you come into contact with Christians kneeling in prayer? The kneeling definitely happens publicly around here. I've seen it in front of the high school flagpole early in the morning, when students gather to pray before school, and on the field following a football game when all the players knelt on one knee and were led in prayer by the captain. Of course this is Texas.

To: Poet who wrote (6479)	4/3/2002 10:21:39 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Why not just say that some people believe there is a Creator and some people don't? There are several ways to slice the population. One is into believers and non-believers. There has been some discussion here that atheists are more like believers because they believe that there is no God, as opposed to agnostics, who don't know or don't care. That slice is useful when discussing faith, in general. Then there is another slice that lumps atheists, agnostics, and believers in an abstract deity into one group and believers in a personal God into another. This seems the most useful slice for discussing church and state issues. I'm not all that interested in what people believe or not. That's their business. I'm interested in the societal implications, which means I have to distinguish between religionists with a personal deity, whose beliefs sometimes clash with my beliefs and rights, and other believers, with whom I have no issue at all. Perhaps the believers in a personal deity should be split into evangelicals and those whose religion is private. I don't know. That's what I'm looking into. You can't solve a problem you can't analyze it in a dispassionate way. You find many of Judaism's and Christianity's religious practices, which are done exclusively during worship services, as personally offensive to you? I do. And I deal with that successfully by not attending any worship services. As long as I can avoid the practices, then it's not an issue. No harm, no foul. It's when the practices are brought into public meetings that the clash occurs. What do you think my point is about? I don't care what people do in their houses of worship. I don't know how many times I have to say that. I'll return when this topic's over with. OK.

To: Poet who wrote (6479)	4/3/2002 12:46:43 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 21057

This is a devil-in-the-details problem. By capitalizing Creator, I assume you give it a personification. How is this different that the Oneness of Buddhism or Suchness of Hinduism? I don't think it is. The real difference between those who believe in this type of thing and those who don't are the degree of anthropomorphism they are willing to assign to such a function. Even the most died-in-the-wool Atheist believes in a "creation" of some kind. It is the sentience behind this point in time that people argue.