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Gold/Mining/Energy : Barrick Gold (ABX) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: russet who wrote (2340)4/3/2002 6:42:42 PM
From: russet  Respond to of 3558
 
Chart from Kitco that proves Barrick is right about the fact that POG spent more years going down or sideways, and only a few spiking up,...

http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.cgi

Choose this path to get the historical charts from 1833 to present, and 1968 to present

> kitco > charts > historical gold > result



To: russet who wrote (2340)4/4/2002 8:57:07 AM
From: nickel61  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 3558
 
Something interesting is going on in the overall gold derivatives' positions. The top three U.S. gold bullion banks' positions fell from $73.2 billion in Dec00 to $48.9 billion in Dec01 reflecting the overall reduction in the gold carry trade positions over the course of 2001. John Doody (Gold Stock Analyst) says "recent CB efforts, overt and covert, are designed to keep a short-term lid on gold's price, effectively 'holding the door open' for the commercial banks to get positions squared, or get out all together. If one of these major banks was to require rescue by the Fed or the German or UK Central Bank, it would be far more damaging to world economies, and the rescue more costly, than to keep a lid on gold and allow the big commercial banks get out with survivable losses."

Taking a closer look at the Gold Derivatives Table published at the News & Views page (linked above), one can see that most of the reduction has occurred at J.P. Morgan which went from $30.5 billion 12/00 to $7.3 billion 12/01. I find this very interesting. That makes two out of the big three American gold derivatives' players showing a reduction to the $7 billion level.

Is it now Chase's turn in 2002 to move to the $7 billion level?

I think Doody's right. There holding the door open with derivatives in order to exit their carry trade positions or get the losses to a manageable level -- a workout as we have described many times before. And Chase may be the last to squeak through before the gold demand slams it shut.

This is the best evidence available why gold might be ready to explode. It's like holding a spring with your foot -- when you let go you'd better get out of the way.

Everywhere you look in gold's numbers -- derivatives, the LBMA, etc -- the numbers are telling us that the gold carry trade and mine lending are being unwound.



To: russet who wrote (2340)4/4/2002 9:17:58 AM
From: nickel61  Respond to of 3558
 
I all seriousness, thank you for an excellent post. I have learned something from reading it and will read it several more times. I ask only that you think of one insight that while it won't prove you or I "right" may help you understand a little where you might want to modify your opinions. When in 1970 the US dollar was taken off the gold link, the paper currencies relationship to any "real asset" gold included changed. And changed very profoundly. What I am saying here and elsewhere is that the possible number of pieces of paper that it might take to buy any "real asset" can now change much more dramatically and unexpectedly then any period prior to 1970. So your call to evaluate gold's price history over any period in the last 300 years is not really the issue, nor is it encouraging that the Barrick employee thought it was. The real issue here is will Barrick's forward sales over the next 15 years prove to have been wise in hind sight or simply a strategy that looked prudent as long as it was congruent with the implicit strategy of the US Treasury to put downward pressure on the gold price to boost the value of the US dollar in world trade, The aforementioned and described "Strong Dollar Policy" of Rubin/Clinton and now of the current administration as well. I see this period of currency manipulation as being a distortion in the relative valuations of various "currencies" including gold that was carried on for economic reasons implicit in our position as the world's only fiat reserve currency(US DOLLAR). You argue really that Barrick's management has understood all of this from the beginning and anticipated it with perfect foresight. Having met their management I doubt this. Not that they are not some of the most impressive of gold miners but rather that they are not Robert Rubins equal. Not many are but let's get real. If they were that smart they would have been running Goldman Sachs and Morgan/Chase not providing collateral for them. Best wishes. I hope you catch the one point where I think you are not focusing your attention. You are clearly a deep and thoughtful investor.



To: russet who wrote (2340)4/4/2002 10:14:02 AM
From: nickel61  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 3558
 
You make one interesting point that I would like to have you rethink. <<If the interest costs to lease the gold for a term are less than the interest costs on the corresponding financial security (generally AAA government backed bonds) bought with the gold sale proceeds over that term, they have effectively sold the gold at a higher price than they would have got selling the same amount of gold at the market price at that time. As long as they have gold in reserves that is cheaper to mine than the price they sold it at when they leased the gold, they make a profit. To say otherwise, is to admit you don't understand what they did.>>

Perhaps you should look at the likly return that they will have on those fixed income AAA credit financial instruments that Barrick has put the proceeds from it's forward sales into. Ask any bond manager what the return on those portfolios of AAA bonds would be if they are held in a period where interest rates for comparable investments changes from US treasuries currently yeilding 5.35% to say a more normal 8-10% interest rate on 10 year US treasuries? I don't really know if the rumors about Enron debt instuments having been a large holding of American Barricks portfolio holdings is true, it may not be, but these fixed income investments would be subject to the same risk to their marketable value as all other fixed income investments should a period of rising interest rates continue back to historic norms. If the Barrick management wants to claim myopically that that is not an issue because they will hold all of the bonds to maturity fine, then just like insurance companies that do the same thing their common stock will be discounted to reflect the decline in market value. Remember the whole reason that the Strong Dollar Policy was effective was that it orchestrated a much lower rate of interest in the US by attracting foreign capital flows to the US Treasury market in unprecidented numbers and allowed the rate of interest to be bought down lower than it would have otherwise been. The exact same thing that was orchestrated in 1990-1993 by Bush I and Allan Greenspan to bail out the US banking system. Except that time is was the banks themselves that bought down the rates through direct purchases with their depositors money instead of making loans. When rates fell they reaped large enough capital gains from their Treasury holdings to rebuild their balance sheets that had been eviserated by the real estate and office building collapse of 1989-1992.



To: russet who wrote (2340)4/4/2002 10:55:18 AM
From: nickel61  Respond to of 3558
 
Apr 04, 2002

Global: On Current-Account Adjustments
Asia Pacific: Oil Chic
MTIP Markets: Winds of Change Finally Blowing

Global: On Current-Account Adjustments

Stephen Roach (New York)

Hints of America’s coming current-account adjustment are already in the air. As Joe Quinlan noted in yesterday’s Forum, just-released data on foreign capital inflows into the US for early 2002 point to a significant shift in the sources of external financing. In January, portfolio inflows into dollar-denominated assets slowed to just $11.3 billion, a marked deceleration from average monthly flows of $44 recorded during 2001. If this trend remains even remotely intact, I believe America’s ability to finance its massive external deficit will become severely impaired. And then the US current-account adjustment will begin in earnest.

What might such an adjustment entail? That’s a question I get a lot these days as I pound the table on what I believe is the key macro tension point for the US economy. Fortunately, there are important lessons from history that may shed some light on what the future holds for America as it faces up to the coming external adjustment. A recent research paper by a Fed economist provides some compelling evidence of potential responses as drawn from the experiences of some 25 current-account adjustments that occurred among industrialized countries over the 1980-97 period (see Caroline L. Freund, "Current Account Adjustment in Industrialized Countries," Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System International Finance Discussion paper #692, December 2000, available at www.federalreserve.gov). While this history offers no guarantees of what lies ahead for the United States, there are some important lessons that I do not believe should be taken lightly.

First of all, the Fed study finds that the median current-account (CA) adjustment of these 25 episodes occurs when the external gap hits about 5% of nominal GDP. It then takes about three years, on average, for the adjustment process to run its course. Even after those three years, the median CA is still in deficit to the tune of about 1% of GDP. There is considerable variability within this sample as to which CA deficit threshold triggers the adjustment. The last time it occurred in the United States was in 1987, when the CA gap was 3.7% of GDP; three years later it had shrunk by 56% to 1.6%. There are, of course, many episodes of CA adjustments that predate the 1980 time frame. But the sample in the Fed study was restricted to that period largely because it had two key characteristics in common with current international financial conditions -- broadly based financial capital mobility and flexible exchange rates.

It’s the dynamics of the CA adjustment process as revealed in this Fed study that I find most fascinating and pertinent for the economic outlook. (Note: The results reported below are for the median CA adjustment over the 25 episodes contained in the 1980-97 sample period). First, the adjusting country typically experienced depreciation in its real effective exchange rate of about 20%; in only two of the 25 instances did the exchange rate appreciate -- Canada in 1981 and Denmark in 1988. But they were the obvious exceptions. Typically, the devaluation began about a year before the CA gap hit its peak and then continued for another three years. At the same time, the depreciation in the nominal exchange rate was, on average, more than double the decline in the real exchange rate. Second, real GDP growth slowed, on average, by about three percentage points from the year prior to the CA peaking; that impact was largest in the first year of the adjustment process. Third, short-term interest rates typically rose in the beginning of the CA adjustment as central banks attempted to limit currency depreciation; toward the end of the adjustment process, short rates typically fell as the downside of the business cycle played out.

Fourth, the Fed study found that an improved trade balance was an important by-product of most of the CA adjustments in this sample period. Interestingly enough, trade turnarounds were mostly export led, with real export growth being boosted, on average, by four percentage points over the course of the three-year CA adjustment. Import growth, by contrast, slowed quite sharply in the first year of the CA adjustment -- a four-percentage-point reduction, on average -- but then returned to its pre-adjustment trend two years later. Fifth, CA adjustments are typically more investment- than saving-led; national saving ratios change little over the first two years of the adjustment period, whereas aggregate investment ratios typically fell by close to two percentage points over the same period.

All this paints a pretty clear picture as to what to expect in the coming US CA adjustment -- a weaker dollar, slower GDP growth, a less accommodative Fed, firmer exports, and weaker imports and investment. It’s yet another manifestation of America’s post-bubble adjustment process. During the Roaring 1990s, Americans (especially consumers) took great confidence from equity wealth effects and drew down their income-based saving balances to historic lows. The result was a saving-short US economy that had to rely increasingly on foreign capital to finance its IT-led investment boom. And America had to run a massive CA deficit in order to attract that external capital. But in doing so, the nation lived well beyond its means -- as those means were defined by the domestic income generation associated with national production.

The coming CA correction suggests that this same movie is now about to run in reverse. In my opinion, it’s just a matter of when, not if -- and what triggers the adjustment process. Along those lines, there is great debate on whether the coming landing will be "soft" or "hard" -- gradual or abrupt. This is particularly problematic since the dollar is the world’s dominant reserve currency and the US is the world’s largest international debtor. Given the saturation of dollar-denominated assets in foreign portfolios, a crisis of confidence is not inconceivable. Should that occur, I believe a hard landing would be inevitable. The metrics of past CA adjustments has little to say about differentiating between these two possibilities. But one thing is certain: The longer the day of reckoning is put off, the more severe the macro impacts of the adjustment process are likely to be. That’s because CA adjustments are not complete until the deficit gets reasonably close to balance. In the 25 instances covered in the Fed study cited above, CA deficits ended up, after three years, being less than 2% of GDP on all but four occasions. In other words, there’s little dispute over the endgame. It’s just a matter of when -- and from what extreme -- it begins.

Needless to say, all this has important implications for financial markets. As I see it, two aspects of America’s looming CA adjustment should be especially important in that regard -- weaker GDP growth and a fall in the dollar. A shortfall in GDP growth implies a weaker earnings trajectory than most equity investors are assuming. And a weaker dollar should provide ample incentive for global investors to diversify out of dollar-denominated assets -- consistent with our global decoupling thesis. I remain convinced that America’s ever-widening current-account deficit is on an inherently unstable path. A correction is coming and there’s no dark secret as to what that means. It’s just a matter of when the denial finally cracks.



To: russet who wrote (2340)4/11/2002 11:52:18 PM
From: FuzzFace  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 3558
 
I'm a goldbug. The kind you disdain. I was 90% done reading your excellent post number 2340. I can see myself, in another frame of mind, agreeing with everything you said up to that point. Well done. Then you wrote: "even if the POG falls below $100 per oz,...as the price has been in the majority of history."

Ummm... No. The dollar is now worth 5 cents compared to 1900's dollar. 1/20th. In 1900, gold was not selling at $100/20 = $5/oz. Not even close. It was around $20/oz and so around $400/oz in today's dollars. I know the exact numbers are easy to argue, but I think your use of a historical average POG as $100 in nominal (today's) bucks is so far off the mark as to be sloppy at best. I'm willing to wager that through most of history, an ounce of gold bought more of life's essentials (things that were common and necessary in all ages) than it will buy you now. Obviously we can't compare how many cable modems an ounce would buy throughout history, but we can compare a month's rent and loaves of bread. You've heard of the penny loaf of bread? That was in 1900. Now you are lucky to get one at 100 times that.

Your overall point was very good. In your own words in post 2340, except for a brief gold bubble in the 70's and early 80's: "Barricks hedging program over any 30 year period in the last 300 years would have made them more money than a non-hedger". I don't know if this is accurate, but assuming it is, the goldbug's point is that this is one of those exceptional times in mankind's history - a time when POG has been distorted so low by so many for so long, that the natural counter reaction is upon us, or nearly so. If correct, there will be a violent reaction. If there is none within a reasonable amount of time, then we are wrong.

The market seems to agree that hedging is wrong right now, judging by the relative difference in the increase off the lows in equity prices of the blue chip hedgers versus blue chip non-hedgers. If you argue the market is not perfect, I will agree. But consider your comrade Enigma's words in post 2335: "I always have a problem with statements like 'gold should be three times the price it is'. Gold and any other commodity is only worth the amount someone will pay you at any given time. One could wish it weren't so, but there it is."

Finally, though I appreciated your well written post's content and style, I can't help but think the bon mot: "Gold is a rich person's bauble, a psychotic's vice, a criminal's currency, and a store of wealth to the uneducated, unmotivated or unprivileged" was too good. Tell me, was it yours or did you just assume we'd all know the source?

P.S. As always, I am behind in my reading, so apologies in advance if you addressed my questions later on in the thread. I'll no doubt catch up 1 minute after the 15 minute window closes.