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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (23870)	4/8/2002 4:59:02 AM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 281500

God-given right to Israel Come on Maurice, anybody fighting a war always has "God with us". It is a good way to get 17 year old boys to fight. At that age, they all think they are immortal, and having heaven available in case they are wrong is encouraging.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (23870)	4/8/2002 10:02:24 AM
From: spiral3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Mq you will find many ultra-orthodox Jews, Christians and Muslims hold the notion that Zionism is predicated on God's promise to the Jewish people. What you will find however is that if you look at the defining documents of Zionism or in the League of Nations Mandate or in the UN Partition Resolution 181 or in the Declaration of the State of Israel, God does not get any mention at all and is not a significant part of how the prinicpal founders of Zionism, nor a significant part of how the State of Israel views its own legitimacy. Herzl’s ideas were grounded in the Enlightenment movement, a secular, democratic groundswell in the late 1800's that yielded the idea of a Nations rights to self determination. As for the Chosen People part it sounds so self righteous that it upsets people...I’m no biblical scholar, but to cut a long story short - look at the first ten chapters of the Bible and you’ll notice that there are no Jews there, the eleventh chapter is the story of the Tower of Babel, where everyone spoke the same language and were metaphorically speaking part of the same “civilization”. But God in his infinite wisdom knew very well that there is no common language, no ultimate singular truth applicable to all of humanity. Having deconstructed Universal Civilization, God needed a vehicle to bring forward the idea/ lessons of Diversity and to do this he chose a couple, Abraham and Sarah, recognized by all three major monotheisms as Jews. The rest as they say, is history, or is it? The Jewish version of monotheism can be plainly stated as "The God of Judaism is the God of the whole world, But, the faith of Judaism is not the faith of all the world" (the diversity lesson). The other montheisms however took on a slightly different tack and are more in the nature of Universal monotheisms which are more like: “Since there is only one God, there is only one true religion and, therefore, there is only one way to find salvation.” This is the terrifyingly logical concept behind Crusade or Jihad and proves that no matter elegant, Logic unfortunately can lead to some very bad decisions, but as usual the Jews will be the ones to catch flack for calling themselves the Chosen People.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (23870)	4/9/2002 2:01:33 AM
From: Condo	Respond to of 281500

Re. "Are there any Jews reading this who can explain the Chosen People crap!": GOD NAMES NEXT "CHOSEN PEOPLE"; IT'S JEWS AGAIN "Oh Shit," Say Jews Jerusalem (SatireWire.com) Update — Jews, whose troubled, 10,000-year term as God's "chosen people" finally expired last night, woke up this morning to find that they had once again been hand-picked by the Almighty. Synagogues across the globe declared a day of mourning. Asked if the descendants of Abraham shouldn't be pleased about being tapped for an unprecedented second term, Jerusalem Rabbi Ben Meyerson shrugged. "Of course, you are right, we should be thrilled," he said. "We should also enjoy a good swift kick in the head, but for some reason, we don't. God conducts blind drawing. "Now don't ask such questions until you watch the news, or read history, or at least rent 'Fiddler on the Roof'." Much of the world's re-blessed Jewish community shared that feeling. "It's always been considered a joke with us. You know, 'Please G-d, next time choose someone else,' ha ha," said New York City resident David Bashert. "Ha. Ha ha," Bashert added. "Shit." ... satirewire.com - Skol, ej