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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (144220)	4/8/2002 10:23:01 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1577869

the military leaders tell us the only way is to shoot and kill and so we do cause its quick and over soon, and then a short while later, the shooting and killing starts up again and the military tells we have to go in one more time but this time will be the last time. But then a few years later, there is more shooting and killing and the military leaders say............ We never learn. Meanwhile the liberal stuff takes longer and is harder to implement but usually ends up in lasting peace but then the military types tell everyone it was a fluke and next time it won't work.....and it was so much work and it meant compromising and spending lots of money and so the next time, we blow it off and blow up bombs and so we are back to the same old rat race... Actually a lot of times its the other way around. You apease people and you buy peace in the short run. You defeat evil and you have peace for a longer time. Of course not for ever because new evil people come up and eventually they forget the fate of the last bunch but you can at least have peace in the medium term rather then just in the short run. .......when's the last time, Sweden or Norway or Denmark or Canada to name a few were at war with someone? And if your answer is a long time ago, then ask yourself why that is. The US hasn't had to defend itself in a long time either at least until 9/11. Yes the US gets in to wars but thats because we have the power and the inclination to take care of situations that threaten not just our interests but the interests of the countries you mention as well. Canada has fought with us on some of these wars so I wouldn't say its been a long time for them. Of course we had more of the burden but we have close to 10 times the population, probably 10 times as big of economy, and dozens of times more military power then they have. Tim

To: tejek who wrote (144220)	4/8/2002 10:36:57 PM
From: AK2004	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1577869

Ted re: It seems Israel has a decisive victory every ten years, then there is a quiet period and then its starts all over again. that is exactly the point, we would not let Israel to take care of plo because we do not want people like you protesting on the street and as a result of it Israel is using half-measures. Even at that the rest of the arab world protests but is not going after Israel. re: No one ties the Israelis' hands you are kidding me, right? re: Kill them all and then there may be peace but anything short of that and you maintain the status quo. there is a small number of organization at the core that is inspiring terrorists. All you need is to take that core out and that is it. re: We never learn no we have learned. Just over 50 years ago ended extermination of Jews in Europe, people who were traditionaly merchants rather than soldiers. It was an easy kill and shall not be like that anymore..... re: Meanwhile the liberal stuff takes longer and is harder to implement but usually ends up in lasting peace care to give me a real example re: Sweden or Norway or Denmark or Canada to name a few were at war with someone? well 1st of all canada was in war: home.achilles.net 2nd was there a negitiations between Norway and Denmark after long conflict at which Denmark used terrorist tactics against Norway that lead to peace? I must have missed it... re: I gave you alternatives...... I recall asking for one with analysis of risk and benefits but do not recall you providing me with one -Albert

To: tejek who wrote (144220)	4/9/2002 5:00:16 AM
From: Joe NYC	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1577869

Ted, Albert, will there be peace this time if there is a clear victory? It seems Israel has a decisive victory every ten years, then there is a quiet period and then its starts all over again. I don't think there will be a decisive victory this time, so there will not be the 10 years quiet period. No one ties the Israelis' hands. The Israelis only do what they want to do. That's why they smile at Bush's pull back demand, and then turnaround and start shooting once more. The reason why I think there will not be a decisive victory is because Sharon does not have Bush fully behind him. Trust me, history has shown that full measures also result in hatred and misery. This is not a cancerous malignancy to be cut out......these are people. Kill them all and then there may be peace but anything short of that and you maintain the status quo. I disagree. From practical point of view, (without passing moral judgements) a complete and unconditional defeat / surrender is a lot healthier for both sides than an unclear result. Mainly psychologically speaking, on individual basis and on the nations collective psyche, if there is such a thing. Just look at successes - Civil war, wars with Spain, Mexico, Germany, Japan, Panama, Grenada, Yugoslavia recently, most likely Afganistan (with understanding that the country is ungovernable) and failures - Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and you can put the conclusion of WWI in that category. Joe

To: tejek who wrote (144220)	4/10/2002 12:26:59 AM
From: SilentZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1577869

>Trust me, history has shown that full measures also result in hatred and misery. This is not a cancerous malignancy to be cut out......these are people. Kill them all and then there may be peace but anything short of that and you maintain the status quo. Once again... we used "full measures" to end WWII, didn't we? The Germans and Japanese are among our best friends right now. >Meanwhile the liberal stuff takes longer and is harder to implement but usually ends up in lasting peace but then the military types tell everyone it was a fluke and next time it won't work..... Where has it worked? -Z