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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (24329)4/10/2002 11:10:35 AM
From: aladin  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Dennis,

You maybe on to something,

Iraq - get rid of all the Kurds and Shia's and then peace.
Palestine - Jew free and peaceful.
Lebanon - Christian free then peace.
Balkans - Moslems go (minority).
Indonesia - Christians go.
Philipines - no more moslems.

Maybe a better solution would be to redraw all national borders on the basis of ethnicity/religion. Then with a few moves (and the odd oven) we could have a lasting peace. Peace in our time!

The biggest problem will be mongrel nations like the United States and Canada. These will be problematic and will need to be dissolved. As smaller nation states we could separate out black (non-muslim), muslim, jewish, christian, hispanic,
secular and asian regions. WASP's would get an enclave in southern New England. A UN force could moniter this area to prevent any further harm to the planet.

John



To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (24329)4/10/2002 12:20:01 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu  Respond to of 281500
 
Fighting to the Last Palestinian - Saddam, Arafat and their posse.

By Ariel Cohen



Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein are willing to sacrifice thousands of lives to remain in power and prevent the United States from attacking Iraq. They are willing to fight the Israelis and the U.S. to the last Palestinian. From the outside, the suicide-murders being carried out by the teenagers and young adults may seem senseless, but the internal logic and emotion of Arab and Muslim politics dictate the escalation of the body count.











The timing of Palestinian-perpetrated killings, such as the recent Passover Massacre, is certainly not accidental when one plots the timeline of those blood lettings and the recent trip by Vice President Cheney to secure support for future U.S. moves to rid the region of Saddam. Suicide-murders are an efficient means of diverting the U.S. foreign-policy agenda and refocusing the attention of the world on Israel — and away from Saddam.

Over a thousand Palestinians, have died since Arafat spurned President Bill Clinton's and then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak's peace offer in the summer of 2000. Many of the dead are brainwashed to believe that in dying they will reach paradise, and enrich their families. They were lead to believe that by committing murder-suicide they will hasten the arrival of a Palestinian state and have Israeli leadership sufficiently cowed so as to be willing to hand it over to them.

Sending young Palestinians to kill Israelis, Jews, and Americans is the only profession Arafat ever mastered. It is his only calling. Neither his engineering studies, nor his attempts to pass as an elected official and an international celebrity apparently satisfied him enough to drive him away from terror, the West's naïve Nobel peace prize notwithstanding.

Arafat's track record and appetite for enticing youngsters to kill other youngsters seems to have been limitless. He was deeply involved in planning the killings of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972 and the March 1, 1973, as well as the assassinations of U.S. ambassador Cleo A. Noel and Deputy Chief of Mission Curtis G. Moore in Khartum. The following year, Arafat's terrorists threw Israeli schoolchildren out of the windows of a school in the town of Maalot. Since then, his henchmen have killed dozens of Israeli children, and trained hundreds of Palestinian children to serve either as human shields for snipers or as killers.

Having assumed control of the West Bank and Gaza in 1993 under the cover of the Oslo Accords, Arafat proceeded to turn the Palestinian Authority's education system into one big jihad factory. While Israeli textbooks were revised to preach peace, Arafat ordered Palestinian youths into terrorist-training summer camps and preached a nonstop barrage of anti-Jewish hatred through everything from Sesame Street-type broadcasts through school textbooks and radio and TV programs financed by the European Union. He appointed Sheikh Akrama Sabri Chief Mufti of the Al Aqsa mosque whose weekly diatribes called for murder of Americans and Israelis.

While children as young as four are taught to march with suicide-bomber belts strapped to their bodies, while mothers celebrate suicide bombings carried out by their sons and daughters (and received monetary rewards for those murders courtesy of Saddam Hussein), those ready to fight to the last Palestinian — in Europe and in the Middle East — remain mum.

Arafat introduced deadly religious rhetoric, previously typical of the radical Islamic movements such as Hamas and Hezbollah, into the formerly secular Fatah mainstream. He repeatedly called for a "million martyrs marching to Jerusalem," and begged on every Arab channel to become a shahid (martyr) himself. His behavior is increasingly reminiscent of Hitler in 1945, who sent one wave of 12-13-year-old Hitlerjugend (Hitler youth) after another to their deaths against American armor and Russian artillery, then proclaimed that the German people did not deserve their Reich if they could not die for it.

But Arafat's motives for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale are even more crass. He has told his close associates that without a new war against Israel, the Arabs will not continue paying the Palestinian Authority. Arafat and his associates skimmed most of the foreign assistance the U.S. and Europe provided since the Oslo accords were signed in 1993. And today, while the Palestinians suffer from 70 percent unemployment, Arafat's coffers are flush with cash — over $20 billion according to some intelligence estimates. War is certainly good business for Abu Amar.

His partner Saddam Hussein is equally willing to fight to the last Palestinian. He turned himself into the patron saint of suicide bombers. As Iraq is squeezed by international sanctions, there must be a compelling reason why Saddam recently doubled the blood money he pays to the families of "martyrs" from $12,000 to $25,000. Adjusted for per-capita income in the Palestinian Authority, this is the equivalent of $600,000 U.S., a tidy sum.

Saddam has created hell on Earth for his own citizens, by gassing the Kurds, attacking Iran and Kuwait, and later by refusing to allow the U.N. inspectors for weapons of mass destruction into Iraq, and flaunting the U.N. sanctions. He diverted the majority of cash from his "oil-for-food" program to the creation of weapons of mass destruction. Now he is busily helping the Palestinians to the "gates of heaven."

Similarly to Arafat, Saddam's rationale is his own political survival. As the Israeli-Palestinian conflict escalates, and as Arab and Muslim solidarity reaches a feverish pitch, echoing loudly in Europe and in the U.N., he believes it is less likely for other Arabs to cooperate with the U.S. in against his totalitarian regime — an attack that President Bush has repeatedly promised. The hotter the Arab-Israeli front, the louder become Arab pleading to spare Saddam.

Demonstrations in the Arab capitals and in Europe are aimed against Israel and the U.S. — but they also implicitly strike against the moderate Arab regimes which Saddam, Osama bin Laden, and radical Palestinians have excoriated for years.

Arafat is playing the role of Saddam's subcontractor for this bloody diversion, while Arab rulers, especially Prince Abdullah, and the Europeans, have become the enablers of Saddam and Arafat, with their policy of murder and human sacrifice.

And as the French and the European Union foreign-policy mandarins quietly contemplate their next move in the "friendly criticism" of Washington, they too become the enablers of terrorism released by Arafat. Some in Europe's corridors of power do not mind seeing the U.S. bogged in the swamps of Arab hatred and foreign-policy obstruction. But by pursuing this course, they too are providing succor to Saddam and Arafat — and encouraging their war to the last Palestinian.

— Mr. Cohen is a research fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

nationalreview.com



To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (24329)4/10/2002 12:33:26 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu  Respond to of 281500
 
Spanish Civil War Redux - Another telling historical analogy.



n the weeks after September 11, there was a debate over whether the war on terrorism would be more like the Cold War or World War II, whether our enemy was more like the Communists or the Nazis (our David Pryce-Jones weighed in on the Cold War side). Neither analogy is exactly apt, of course.











The current conflict between Israelis and the Palestinians, as Thomas Friedman pointed out in the New York Times a few weeks ago, raises another imperfect, but still telling historical analogy — the Spanish Civil War.

From its beginning in 1936, the Spanish Civil War was a proxy for the budding struggle over the future of all of Europe, between fascism and communism. In the same way, today's war in the West Bank and Israel is a rehearsal for the struggle over the future of the Middle East, between Arab rejectionism and American power, between terrorism and a more realistic Arab politics.

As in the Spanish Civil War, both sides are armed (or at least try to be armed) by the rival powers. Israel has its American M-16s and Cobra helicopters, the Palestinians sophisticated arms from murky sources, probably related to Syria and Iran. We know that an intercepted 50-ton shipment of arms to the Palestinians came from Iran, and that America's chief enemies in the region, Iran and Iraq, provide financial support to the suicide bombings.

As in the Spanish Civil War, the arguments over this conflict mirror the larger arguments to come. Is terrorism and the related Islamic extremism something to be negotiated with and accepted like any other political phenomenon, or should it be shunned, and if necessary, fought? Should the Arab street, with a few protests, be able to determine U.S. policy in the region? Is U.S. policy racist and anti-Arab, or simply determined to root out terrorism?

As in the Spanish Civil War, the side portrayed by the elite and the Left as the virtuous Davids staring down a brutal Goliath is tainted with a ruthless political ideology and cynical violence. It took decades, and the recent publication of Spain Betrayed: The Soviet Union in the Spanish Civil War, to demonstrate that the idealistic leftist fighters in the Spanish Civil War were the pawns of a brutal Soviet policy. The evidence in the current case is much more immediate and undeniable: To see that the Palestinians are beholden to hideous political ideology you need look no further than the doctrines of Hamas; to see how the Palestinian cause been captured by the romance of violence you need look no further than the Al Aqsa Brigades; to see that the intifada is a tool in a much larger geopolitical game you need do nothing more than follow the money back to Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia.

As in the Spanish Civil War, whoever wins will have momentum in the coming wider struggle. As David Pryce-Jones has written, in the Spanish Civil War, "the Fascist victory meant that there was no chance to put Communism into practice in Western Europe, and no chance either to stop Hitler in his tracks." Similarly, if the U.S. bends to the Palestinian/Iranian/Iraqi forces in this current conflict, it seems there will be little chance to begin to roll them back in earnest with an invasion of Iraq, culminating in the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

So, watch events closely in the West Bank and Israel in coming weeks and months. They are as fraught with meaning, and as telling about the future, as those battles fought 70 years ago in Spain.



To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (24329)4/10/2002 1:05:17 PM
From: Bilow  Respond to of 281500
 
Hi Dennis O'Bell; Re: "When Israel is finally reduced to a position of profound weakness, (probably following a complete economic blockade on the part of the rest of the world) and the Arabs take over, the region will be swept clean of any remnant of Jewish culture."

I doubt that the Jewish culture is going to be destroyed, in the Middle East, after surviving there for 2500 years. People who are in the process of losing power always exaggerate the ferocity of the opposition. Most of the time it's not as bad as they predicted, though there are exceptions. The worst exceptions are when the oppressors aren't really defeated, but instead are forced to retreat to another place of strength. At the end of WW2 there wasn't a major massacre of Germans in any of the Occupied Territories. (Well, okay, on the Eastern front.)

Re: "When the French left Algeria 40 years ago 1.2 million pied noirs fled for their lives for mainland France ..." Most Israelis also have places they can emigrate to.

Re: "... overnight all road signs were replaced ..." What a horror! Just think of it! Having road signs in the language of the majority of the citizenry! That's almost as bad as the worst excesses of the French Revolution!

Re: "... the French language was completely banned from schools and administration ..." That's incredible! You mean that when an average guy walked into court he had to use the same language he grew up with? What a cruel fate! Lawyers should always use a foreign language. And teaching children in their native language has been shown to be habit forming.

Re: "... the Harkis were massacred." It would have been better for them to have moved to France. One thing I'd like to point out is that the people in France who continued the war in Algeria were not the same as the people who risked being massacred when the war went badly. If they had been, maybe they'd have negotiated a peaceful culmination (like the South Africans did and I expect the Israelis to do) instead of hanging on to the bitter end.

But let's assume you're right, and that Israel must end with a massacre.

Let's be practical then. The people who live in Israel need to figure out where they're going to move to. The alternative solution implicitly proposed by the Israeli right wing is to kill millions.

-- Carl

P.S. The "Sampson Option" isn't an option. The US has had no use for nuclear weapons, since the end of WW2, and neither will Israel, though they might save the capital from being overrun militarily. Even the USSR's thousands of nuclear weapons (many many times more than Israel has) couldn't save their government.