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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: bacchus_ii who wrote (25067)4/14/2002 8:44:59 AM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
<<The bloody evidence of the tragedy that is Jenin>>

news.independent.co.uk

It's amazing Sharon and his IDF commanders allowed this to happen....I AM SHOCKED that Bush and Powell have not already forced Israel to withdraw from Janin and allow international humanitarian groups in....It is possible there may have been some war crimes committed...If Israel has nothing to hide, then why not let UN and Red Cross Humanitarian Groups in...??? What about international journalists...??? Sharon has no justification for this. Wars have norms and I believe some important norms may have been violated. Why has the U.S. allowed Israel to operate this way...???...We have leverage...We write a check each year for $3 Billion to support Israel -- If I were Bush, I would have already threatened to cut off all support...We must use our leverage to get Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories. The IDF's ongoing activities are counter-productive and continue to destabilize the entire Middle East region....JMHO.



To: bacchus_ii who wrote (25067)4/14/2002 9:06:56 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
*** Robert Fisk: Mr Powell must see for himself what Israel inflicted on Jenin

The credibility of US policy on the conflict has been shattered
By Robert Fisk / Columnist / Independent.co.uk
14 April 2002

Why doesn't Colin Powell go to Jenin? What has happened to the world's moral compass – indeed to the United States – when America's most famous ex-general, the Secretary of State of the most powerful country on earth, on a supposedly desperate mission to stop the bloodshed in the Middle East, fails to grasp what is taking place in front of his nose? The stench of decaying corpses is wafting out of the Palestinian city. The Israeli army is still keeping the Red Cross and journalists from seeing the evidence of the mass killings that have taken place there. "Hundreds'' – on Israel's own admission – have died, including civilians. Why, for God's sake, can't Mr Powell do the decent thing and demand an explanation for the extraordinary, sinister events that have taken place in Jenin?

Instead, after joshing with Ariel Sharon after his arrival in Jerusalem on Friday, Mr Powell is playing games, demanding that Yasser Arafat condemn Friday's bloody suicide bombing in Jerusalem (total, six dead and 65 wounded) while failing to utter more than a word of "concern'' for the infinitely more terrible death toll in Jenin. Is Mr Powell frightened of the Israelis? Does he really have to debase himself in this way? Does he think that meeting Arafat, or refusing to do so, takes precedence over the enormous humanitarian tragedy and slaughter that has overwhelmed the Palestinians? Is President Bush – whose demand that Ariel Sharon withdraw his troops from the West Bank has been blandly ignored – so gutless, so cynical, as to allow this charade to continue? For this is the endgame, the very final proof that the United States is no longer morally worthy of being a Middle East peacemaker.

Even for one who has witnessed so much duplicity in the Middle East, it is a shock to reflect on the events of the past nine days. Let's just remember, as the Americans would say, "the facts". Almost two weeks ago, the United Nations Security Council, with the active participation and support of the United States, demanded an immediate end to Israel's reoccupation of the West Bank and Gaza. President Bush insisted that Mr Sharon should follow the advice of "Israel's American friends'' and – because our own Mr Blair was with the President at the time – of "Israel's British friends", and withdraw. "When I say withdraw, I mean it," Mr Bush snapped three days later. But of course, it's now clear that he meant nothing of the kind.

Instead, he sent Mr Powell off on his "urgent" mission of peace, a journey to Israel and the West Bank that would take the Secretary of State an incredible eight days – just enough time, Mr Bush presumably thought, to allow his "good friend'' Mr Sharon to finish his latest bloody adventure in the West Bank. Supposedly unaware that Israel's chief of staff, Shoal Mofaz, had told Mr Sharon that he needed at least eight weeks to "finish the job'' of crushing the Palestinians, Mr Powell wandered off around the Mediterranean, dawdling in Morocco, Spain, Egypt and Jordan before finally washing up in Israel on Friday morning. If Washington firefighters took that long to reach a blaze, the American capital would long ago have turned to ashes. But of course, the purpose of Mr Powell's idleness was to allow enough time for Jenin to be turned to ashes. Mission, I suppose, accomplished.

As Israel's indisciplined soldiery yesterday continued to hide their deeds from the outside world by preventing the Red Cross, aid workers, ambulances and journalists from entering the rubble of Jenin, Mr Powell was sitting idly by in Israel, calling for the "utmost restraint'' from an army that has not yet finished filling the mass graves of Jenin. That he should see a visit to Yasser Arafat – the grotesque, corrupt old man of Ramallah – as the make-or-break issue of his "peacemaking" shows just how skewed Mr Powell's morality has become. Mr Arafat's advisers (let's not give any credit to the would-be "martyr-chairman" of the Palestinian Authority for this) shrewdly announced that it is for Mr Powell to condemn the killings in Jenin, for Mr Arafat could be expected to condemn the vicious suicide bombing in Jerusalem on Friday. And even though Mr Arafat mouthed the relevant words of contrition and condemnation yesterday afternoon, it makes little difference.

All last week, while Mr Sharon's soldiers were running amok in Jenin, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer was playing the role of Mr Sharon's point man in Washington. When Israel announced that its army was pulling out of three tiny West Bank villages – so tiny that no one had ever heard of them before – Mr Fleischer announced that this was "a step in the right direction''. Then by Friday morning, when even the most dimwitted observer had grasped that something was terribly wrong in Jenin, Mr Fleischer was telling us that Sharon was "a man of peace''. How much longer, one wonders, could this nonsense continue?

Of course, the Palestinians – or whoever directs the sepulchral, nightmarish campaign of suicide bombing, for it surely cannot be the preposterous Mr Arafat – are going for the jugular. The Al Aqsa Brigades or Hamas or Islamic Jihad clearly intend to ensure that Mr Sharon's ruthless operation fails (the Israeli reoccupation, after all, was supposed to be preventing these wicked Palestinian crimes) and to ensure that Mr Powell is made to look impotent. They seem certain to accomplish both goals. The Palestinian Authority, to all intents and purposes, has for now ceased to exist. That was surely one of Mr Sharon's intentions. And Mr Powell's weakness, his failure of nerve, his cowardice, are now likely to set off an Israeli-Palestinian war even more terrible than what we have witnessed so far.

But let's pause for a quick journey down memory lane; to September 1982, when Ariel Sharon was "rooting out the network of terror" in the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in Beirut. Before sending Israel's murderous Phalangist militia allies into the camps, Mr Sharon told the world that the Palestinians had assassinated the Phalangist leader, Bashir Gemayel. This was totally untrue, but the Phalange believed him. And evidence is now emerging in Beirut that, long after the Americans had called for Israel to withdraw the killers from the camp, the Israeli army, commanded by then Defence Minister Sharon, handed more than 1,000 survivors over to those same murderers to be slaughtered over the following two weeks. This, primarily, is why Mr Sharon is so worried by the attempts to indict him for war crimes in Brussels.

Hasn't Mr Powell glanced through the State Department archives for 1982? Hasn't he read what Mr Sharon said back then, the same ranting about "terror networks" and "rooting out terror" that he employs today? A lexicon which Mr Powell himself is now enthusiastically using? Has he forgotten that the Israeli Kahan commission held Mr Sharon "personally responsible'' for the massacre of those 1,700 civilians? Does Mr Powell really think that Jenin, albeit on a smaller scale, is much different? Even if we dismiss all the Palestinian claims of civilian butchery, extrajudicial executions and the wholesale destruction of thousands of homes, what on earth does he think the Israelis are hiding in Jenin? Why doesn't he go and look?

Yes, the Palestinians' suicide campaign is immoral, unforgivable, insupportable. One day, the Arabs – never ones to look in the mirror when it comes to their own crimes – will have to acknowledge the sheer cruelty of their tactics. They have not done this so far. But since the Israelis never attempted to confront the immorality of shooting to death child stone-throwers in the early days of the intifada or the evil of their reckless death squads who went around murdering Palestinians on their wanted list, along with the usual clutch of women and kids who got in the way, is this any wonder?

In the annals of war, the conflict in the Middle East has reached a new apogee, but the story of the United States' involvement in the Middle East will never be the same again. Thanks to Mr Powell, President Bush and Mr Sharon, America's credibility has been shattered. Israel, it turns out, does indeed run US policy in the region. The Secretary of State sings from the Israeli songbook. So when, oh when, will the Europeans screw their courage to the sticking-place and become the peacemakers of the Middle East?

argument.independent.co.uk



To: bacchus_ii who wrote (25067)4/14/2002 9:12:08 AM
From: Mao II  Respond to of 281500
 
Who are the terrorists?
nytimes.com
nytimes.com



To: bacchus_ii who wrote (25067)4/14/2002 11:02:06 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
Sharon must listen

Colin Powell's presence is essential

Sunday April 14, 2002
The Observer Worldview

US Secretary of State Colin Powell's mission to the Middle East hangs by a thread. His critics at home are questioning his judgment in exposing himself to what has seemed inevitable failure. Far from responding to President Bush's call for withdrawal, Israel is continuing its operations on the West Bank. But Powell yesterday exacted an explicit condemnation from Yasser Arafat of Friday's suicide bombing, and of all terrorism against Israeli and Palestinian civilians. That statement keeps hopes of progress tenuously alive, although it will also attract accusations of hypocrisy.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon may well have calculated that Bush's call could safely be ignored. The President's initial reluctance to urge restraint was certainly no discouragement. Even though he changed his line 10 days ago, the President has continued to make it clear where his sympathies lie. In his support for Israel, he is largely supported by American public opinion. Hawks argue that Israel is simply asserting the right, enunciated by the US after 11 September, to pursue terrorists across any frontier.

The trouble with this doctrine, forged in the heat of anger and grief, is that it sits uneasily with legality. Last week, the sixtieth ratification of the Rome statute paved the way for the creation of the International Criminal Court, shunned by the US. Yet Washington's creeping disengagement from international processes bodes ill for the Middle East, where repeated reports of Palestinian casualties are horrifying, and for the future world order. For that reason, Powell's presence in the Middle East is not to be criticised but welcomed as indispensable.

guardian.co.uk



To: bacchus_ii who wrote (25067)4/14/2002 5:45:20 PM
From: William B. Kohn  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
I am taking your article of proof and reading it now.

Allegation 1: "Palestinians escaping from the West Bank camp, which has been sealed off by the Israeli army for the past 11 days, have spoken of hundreds of deaths, including many who slowly bled to death because ambulances were prevented from entering. " Who caused the deaths? The inferance is Israel, but that is not stated. Who refused to allow the ambulances in? The inferance again is Israel but that is not stated nor has any proof been given to that fact.

Allegation 2: "But no photographic evidence of the ferocity of Israel's attack had emerged until yesterday, when a Reuters photographer managed to enter the camp briefly before being chased out again by an Israeli armoured vehicle.

His two snatched photographs show a house in Jenin which is littered with three-day-old corpses..."

The photographs show destruction, could it have been a result of a bomb, crossfire, or does the destruction prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the cause of all this destruction was completely on the part of the Israeli's. These corpses, if they were military casualties, that's what war is, if they were civilian, does the picture show who killed them?

The fact that Jenin was devistated is not a topic for discussion, we know that, but we don't yet know who is responsible for this destruction. Don't jump the gun and assume it was the Israeli's that did it!



To: bacchus_ii who wrote (25067)4/14/2002 6:00:13 PM
From: William B. Kohn  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Here is the latest on the Jenin attrosity. Haaretz is the liberal media in Israel.

haaretzdaily.com

IDF says a 'few dozen' Palestinians killed in Jenin camp battles

By Ha'aretz Staff

Forty-five Palestinians were killed in ten days of fierce battles in the Jenin refugee camp in the West Bank, according to IDF estimates. The army believes that the number of dead could be higher after demolished homes are searched, but estimates are that it will not be more than "a few dozen."

This is still significantly lower than earlier estimates according to which 150 to 200 Palestinians were killed.

According to the army, a total of 188 Palestinians were killed during "Operation Defensive Wall" - 45 from Jenin, 104 in Ramallah and Nablus, five in Qalqilyah and Tul Karm, 28 in Bethlehem and Hebron and six in Tamon, Tubas and Taisir.

Twenty-nine Israeli soldiers were killed during the operation.

Senior defense ministry officials believe that the IDF made a serious error by releasing estimates too early on a supposedly high number of dead Palestinians in Jenin. These announcements caused damage to Israel's image abroad and served "Palestinian propaganda of the alleged massacre that took place in the camp." One source singled out IDF Spokesman Brigadier General Ron Kitrey as having "made mistakes."

The number of Palestinians injured in the operation is estimated at 599, 277 of which were in Jenin, while 125 Israeli soldiers were wounded.

END OF PIECE

I am not saying these numbers are the final tally, but this points out the need to balance what the Arabs say with the time necessary to make a better determination. To say that the Arab world has a history of stretching the truth, is about as large an understatement as one can possibly make.