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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (25248)	4/15/2002 3:05:00 AM
From: jttmab	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

We do know that they have booby-trapped buildings, and waged firefights in urban areas without much regard for civlian casualties. They have even been blowing up Arabs as well as Jews in their recent suicide attacks. So what's so hard to believe? We also know that the IDF has said that the Franciscans in the Church of the Nativity are "hostages". That's believable. We also know that the Vatican spokesman for the Nativity has said that the Franciscans are there voluntarily. All we have left to do is to decide whether we believe the believable, sic, they are hostages, or to believe the Vatican spokesman. I have no doubt that there are people that absolutely believe the IDF and there are people that will believe the Vatican spokesman; and each of them will find the others opinion unbelieveable. The Israelis have admitted that they use and will continue to use Palestinian civilians as shields to enter buildings. Since those buildings are booby trapped, does that imply anything about the Israeli regard for civilian causualties? I watched a short segment on CNN last night where a Christian Minister [or Priest] was walking with a news reporter around the Church of the Nativity. The IDF warned them that they should leave, because it wasn't safe. That sure is believable; no question there. They continued their walk, and eventually an IDF soldier cocked his automatic weapon and said, you either leave or I'll shoot. It's darn hard to believe that the IDF soldier was going to shoot the two of them, for their own safety. And I'm pretty certain that is not the official position of the IDF. A number of days ago an IDF General said that there were hundreds of Palestinian dead; shortly after that the IDF "clarified" what the general said...the number was withdrawn because there was no accurate count. While I'm sure there is no accurate count, I doubt that was the reason for the clarification. Once the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the IDF had to return the Palestinian bodies to their families, the Israelis said there were 10's not 100's. The IDF also got a clause into the ruling that if the Palestinians delayed in claiming the bodies, they could be buried by the IDF immediately. I suppose there's as much flexibility in interpreting "delayed" as there is in interpreting "without delay". jttmab

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (25248)	4/15/2002 4:40:46 AM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 281500

Here is column you will like, Nadine Why Israel Must Not Withdraw by Robert W. Tracinski Apr 12, 2002 Colin Powell has failed, so far, in his attempt to browbeat Israel into joining America's official surrender in the War on Terrorism. Yet Ariel Sharon has repeatedly stated that his armies will eventually withdraw from the West Bank, and that Israel does not intend to remain in control of Palestinian territory "for any length of time." This is a crucial mistake, because it is vital for Israel's victory in its war of survival,and for whatever is left of America's battle against terrorism,that Israel establish permanent control over the West Bank, renewing its occupation of Palestinian territory. The conventional wisdom is that the Israeli occupation and resulting Palestinian "resentment" is the cause of the current conflict. This is the exact opposite of the truth. The massive escalation of the Palestinians' terrorist war actually coincides with the withdrawal of Israel's occupation. Under the 1993 Oslo accords, Israel has spent most of the last decade pulling out of Palestinian territories and transferring control to Yasser Arafat. The result was not peace, but the creation of a Palestinian regime based on anti-Jewish terrorism. The creation of this terror regime began during the intifada that led up to the Oslo accords. During this uprising, Palestinian militants killed hundreds of fellow Palestinians accused of "collaborating" with Israel. In other words, they exterminated anyone who might want to live peacefully with the Jews. Rather than seeking to protect friendly Palestinians, Israeli doves and American diplomats betrayed any such "moderate" Palestinians by installing a terrorist thug, Arafat, as their new political master. Moderates got the message and joined the radicals. No new moderates have dared to poke up their heads. Those who did criticize Arafat have been imprisoned, threatened, suppressed. Palestinian society has been shaped by an opposite influence: an educational system in which children are showered with anti-Jewish propaganda and praise for suicide bombers; Palestinian "summer camps" in which teenagers are taught how to murder Israelis; an anarchic society in which prestige goes to young men who join armed militias and terror brigades. Terror, in this Palestinian culture, is the primary form of political currency. Arafat lieutenant Marwan Bhargouti has openly boasted that terror bombings by the Arafat-sponsored Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades are what restored the prestige and influence of Arafat's Fatah political faction. All of this has increasingly fused with the outlook of Islamic fundamentalism, which glorifies mass-murder martyrdom as a moral ideal. Israeli raids have found evidence that Arafat provided direct financial support for terrorism, but the most important form of that support is the least expensive: money for posters proclaiming the heroism of the latest suicide bomber. What Israeli is doing now?arresting militants, destroying suicide bomb factories, seizing weapons caches,is necessary, but it is not enough. These operations only eliminate, for the moment, the products of a terrorist culture. But if Israelis want to be able to live in peace, the terrorist culture itself must be uprooted. Only an Israeli occupation can achieve that goal. There has been a lot of talk about the "legitimate aspirations" of the Palestinian people for an independent state. But people who embrace suicide bombings and choose career killers as their leaders?as the Palestinians have done?have no legitimate political aspirations. They will be "ready for democracy" only when they stop worshipping murderers. Israel needs to replace the Palestinian Authority with a permanent occupation, an Israeli colonial administration charged with the task of civilizing a people made barbarous by decades of terrorist leadership. This occupation should remove terror indoctrination from Palestinian schools, make life safer for civilized Palestinian leaders, and make terrorism a road to prison or death, not popular adulation. Most important, the occupation must seal off Palestinian territories from the real instigators of terrorism. The claim that terrorism is primarily a response to Israeli actions is terrorist propaganda. In reality, terrorism is fed and driven by outside sponsors: by Iran, whose theocrats provide money, weapons, and training; by Iraq, whose dictator offers bounties to suicide bombers; by Syria, the base for terror groups like Hezbollah. If Israel withdraws, these forces will flow back in to rebuild the culture of terrorism. These are the lessons we thought we had learned after September 11: that terrorists have no right to gain a hearing for their cause; that we must answer them with destruction, not negotiation; that we must uproot them by striking at their organizations and sponsors. The crisis in Israel is a test of whether there is anything left of that vision. intellectualactivist.com