Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (25561)	4/16/2002 11:29:31 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

structural reasons of despair that provide the conditions within which her actions make sense to her I think he did point them out -- the cousins who had fought and died for Hamas. The "structural reasons" were political in this case, since the girl's own life was far from desperate in any mundane sense of the word. I thought it was excellent that he highlighted the security guard's noble self-sacrifice.

To: JohnM who wrote (25561)	4/17/2002 12:11:18 AM
From: frankw1900	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

the structural reasons of despair that provide the conditions within which her actions make sense to her and, presumably, to her family. Who says it's despair that led the girl to do murder? Most murders are done through rage. Whatever the "structural reasons" leading to murders might be, I doubt despair is high on the list. This is the case that can be made. There is moral indiscipline in both Palestinian and Israeli leadership. It shows in the former's 20 year campaign of hatred in style reminiscent of the Nazis and in it's promotion of suicide bombing to such a degree it had become fashionable, and in it's economic fecklessness; It shows in the latter's establishment of settlements in occupied areas, in lax control of IDF's young soldiers as they've manned check points and security details, and in a general view that Palestinians are an underclass. (I've mentioned only a few examples in both cases as evidence of moral indiscipline). Who is to blame for this is right now irrelevant. Those are the general conditions on the ground there. The general conditions must be changed. They can be changed lots of ways and not all of them for the better. It would be easier if the two sides strengths were reasonably symmetrical, but they're not. The Israelis have strengths: they are democratic and can change their leadership fairly easily (which Palestinians cannot), they can change the behaviour of their young soldiers, most Israelis are ashamed of the situation of most individual Palestinians in the occupied areas and would like to change it if this could be done without jeopardizing their own existence. They have conventional military superiority. The Palestinian strength is singleness of purpose (in goals of destroying Israel and freedom from Israeli control), control over most of the media, and demographics - they feel they can be profligate expending young lives. They feel they can say no. And they are well financed externally. The israeli strength is that of the people generally; strength of the palestinians is held more by the leadership. In both cases the strengths may also be seen as weaknesses. Palestinian leadership see the Israeli strength that way. Some of the Israelis see the Palestinian strengths as a weakness, also. Both sides have operated on that basis. The overall situation has broken open because of the Palestinian assault on Israeli society and the responding Israeli assault on Palestinian leadership. It's not clear the general conditions of leaders' moral indiscipline have changed. (There will be a sign of this, perhaps, when both sides change their leadership) It's this general condition which leads to the structural reason of rage which produces the young murderess and the young IDF soldier sniping at civilians.