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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GST who wrote (25690)	4/16/2002 8:39:21 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 281500

Al-Qa'eda offers $100,000 bounty on westerners Message 17340623

To: GST who wrote (25690)	4/16/2002 9:09:26 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

September 11 there was a huge and tangible outpouring of support for the US Sure.. but not in the West Bank or Gaza... And the rest of the time the Arabs were trying to claim that it was the Jews who committed the 9/11 attacks... (A muslim would never do such a thing, but a Jew obviously would).. I don't know where you traveled, but I wonder if it was in the Mid-East.. I didn't need to travel there to get a sense of Arab opinion. I read their newsites, and saw their comments about how this was "god's righteous judgement" against the infidels. Maybe it has cost us support in our "war against terrorism", or maybe it has actually uncovered the latent terrorism that exists in the hearts of many muslims who feel suicide bombings are EVER justifiable against civilians, let alone sending your children to carry out the attacks. The Koran doesn't teach that, nor does the Bible. So where these warped examples of humanity came up with such a belief is simply beyond my sense of logic. I personally believe in God.. And I personally believe he has a special place in hell waiting for those who would sacrifice innocent children and turn them into weapons of homicidal terror. As for the Jewish lobby, what about all of that influence the Arabs possess based upon the US reliance on imported oil?? The Jewish lobby may be at work in the US, but the Arab lobby is just as hard-charging in Europe.... And if you think this will all end with an Israeli retreat from the West Bank and closing down of all the settlements, you're delusional.... The war will end when Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews (with credit to Golda Meir)... I mean, haven't you ever noticed that the Palestinian men hide behind their stone-throwing children, using them as human shields?? Doesn't that disturb you in the least that we might permit such a society, possessing such dysfunctional values, to actually becom a state? Israel certainly isn't a perfect society, since it reflects the obvious influences within its own society. Neither is the US perfect. Technically speaking, we've been "oppressing" the Indians for over a hundred years now, and we locked up Japanese Americans when our own xenophobic fear overwhelmed us (how many Germans or Italians did we send to "internment camps").. The bottom line is that any democracy, when place under sufficent societal stress, will default back to more reactive instincts. It will, in fact, look even less democratic as it seeks security and peace.. It will, like any non-democratic state, take whatever actions deemed necessary to return it to the previous period of stability and peace, even if that means committing atrocities against its enemies (real or perceived). Israel is a democracy under extreme duress. The US, to a lesser extent, is under the same kind of duress where the "niceties" of diplomacy and non-violent policy measures don't meet the public demand for action. So the US bombs Afghanistan, and threatens Iraq, while the Israelis take action against human bombers from the West Bank, financied by Arafat and his cronies. But just as the downfall of the Taliban paves the way for a major transition in Afghanistan and hopefully an end of war there, the downfall of Arafat would likely lead to the same situation on the West Bank. Either way.. American public opinion does not agree with your side, and the general weakness of your logic won't likely bring many over to your side. Hawk

To: GST who wrote (25690)	4/16/2002 9:29:29 PM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<<I believe we support Israel in part on humanitarian grounds, but increasingly on pure political grounds -- as a result of a strong and wealthy Jewish lobby in Washington>>> You are entitled to try and maintain your beleifs by any means possible, but interestingly, the strongest support of Israel in the US, it appears, comes from White Christians in the South, many of whom don't even like Jews - and would hesitate little about telling ANY "lobby" where to go and what to do...