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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Doc Bones who wrote (25851)4/18/2002 1:55:53 AM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
<<...Although the president urged the Israelis to withdraw from the West Bank and dispatched his secretary of state to try to calm Mideast violence, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has moved at his own pace in mopping up the West Bank and has hedged his plans to withdraw forces. Yasir Arafat refused to call a halt to Palestinian attacks as long as the occupation goes on — and while Mr. Arafat himself cannot leave a battered compound surrounded by Israeli tanks.

The apparent failure of Secretary Powell's mission has now pushed American diplomacy into the region's most intractable conflict to a point where the political costs at home are rising and the diplomatic costs with the Arab world are steep, and where even the global antiterror campaign could be in jeopardy...>>

Nice post Doc...IMO, The NY Times lays out the situation quite clearly...It's sad we were not able to more effectively force both parties to do what the President asked them to do. Bush must be willing to expend some political capital in order to help end the Arab-Israeli conflict. We'll soon see if he really wants to do that.



To: Doc Bones who wrote (25851)4/18/2002 1:56:49 AM
From: Nadine Carroll  Respond to of 281500
 
Friendly Persuasion
A parody.

Mr. Sharon: We confess a little anxiety about your plans for Iraq. In this part of the world, everything is connected. Last time you went in there, we got missiles in Tel Aviv — and an order from you not to strike back! Some would say that American brinkmanship is not helpful to our larger interests in the region.






 

Mr. Powell: We appreciate your views, Mr. Prime Minister. But when American civilians are blown up in our skies and in New York and Washington, then we are in a war for our very survival and must take steps to defend ourselves.

Mr. Sharon: Of course. Still, how long will this campaign last? The longer it goes on, the more likely some nut in Syria or Libya will send a missile our way. We are a little closer to the inferno than you. You've been threatening to intercede in Iraq for months — and your "incursion" may, in fact, last longer than you think.

Mr. Powell: It will last as long as it must — that is, until there are no more terrorist threats in Iraq.

Mr. Sharon: How shall I bring up a sensitive point?

Mr. Powell: Go ahead.

Mr. Sharon: Well, the talk here is that there exists some type of vendetta — an old feud between Saddam and the Bushes. Of course that is silly; but even some in Europe believe that Bush junior is attacking Saddam to avenge the plot to kill his dad. They are claiming that the blood hatred goes way, way back — a personality thing between two proud leaders that gets in the way of peace.

Mr. Powell: That is puerile.

Mr. Sharon: Yes, but a feud between two men is exactly what they are saying — and it gets worse. Some also lie that this strike against Iraq is an American war party obsession, claiming that Clinton and the Democrats would have never gotten America into this war. As a general and veteran you know the stereotypes yourself.

Mr. Powell: Look the American people voted for Bush — in part because they were tired of Clinton's inaction and failure to deal with terrorists.

Mr. Sharon: We know that. But the perception lingers that the present American administration is full of hawks, obsessed with Saddam — and wants to punish an old nemesis rather than deal with more fundamental social issues.

Mr. Powell: Mr. Bush was elected. There is no such thing as a "Bush-Saddam" grudge. We don't implement policy that way.

Mr. Sharon: But if you go into Iraq, won't you just raise another Saddam and more suicide bombing like 9/11? There will be an entire generation of Arabs who will hate you for attacking Baghdad — especially in such a one-sided, asymmetrical war, when the tanks and planes are all on your side. Aren't you worried that ten Arabs will die for every lost American — how will that play in Europe and the Middle East?

Mr. Powell: What would you have us do? Lose more of our kids to bombers for public relations? There are no easy solutions. Do you think we like going in where we are not wanted?

Mr. Sharon: Still, how can your planes separate the good from bad? Surely there are Iraqis who don't like Saddam. Must they suffer when your tanks crush houses and your planes shoot up streets? We already saw some of that collateral damage in Afghanistan and Mogadishu. We didn't want to say anything, but you guys killed more Somalis in 24 hours than our IDF killed Palestinians in an entire decade.

Mr. Powell: When people shoot at us, use human shields, and mutilate our dead, we get rather angry. And be careful about moral equivalence. Blowing up 3,000 Americans in a time of peace is not the same as trying to root out urban terrorists during war.

Mr. Sharon: Well, can't you at least talk with Hussein? Is your hatred that elementary? We know he's a terrorist; we even bombed his nuclear reactor. But for now he's the only strongman in Iraq — the only chance for some type of reprieve that can prevent war. You can't really pick and choose someone else's thugs — you have to play with the cards you're dealt with in this business.

Mr. Powell: He is a murderer! He pays for suicide bombers — and actually signs cash orders for killers. He may have had something to do with September 11. How can you talk to someone who for 30 years has killed innocents? His goons were cheering in the street on news of our dead. My God, he wears a gun like some common street criminal! Threatens his own cabinet! He's a thug, not a statesman. He even kissed Arafat, his lackey, when we were at war! You have a short memory, and so have forgotten that he was a regular visitor to Moscow. Once upon a time, the Soviets created Saddam, supplied him, and turned him loose against us.

Mr. Sharon: But do you have real evidence he was involved in 9/11? And remember between 1991 and 2001 you both lived a sort of coexistence, right? Can't you go back to the situation as it was? It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't Armageddon either? What if Saddam renounced terror in both English and Arabic?

Do you realize your unilateral war might ignite the entire region? We will share our intelligence with you, of course, and do what we can to help. But just remember each time you bomb, they will say the Jews did it — just like in 1991.

Mr. Powell: He must go. Saddam violated every agreement — all the U.N. resolutions, all the armistice agreements, and all the regional understandings. Do you know that we intercepted a ship in the Persian Gulf with arms shipments in clear violation of the '91 armistice? Do you think if he had nukes he wouldn't use them?

Mr. Sharon: But how do you know that what will follow him is any better? Again, won't you breed a generation of Saddams for America — and thus for us as well?

Mr. Powell: We respect your larger concerns. But you can't ask a sovereign nation to stay calm when its citizens are being blown up. You seem to forget that 3,000 Americans died in a single day.

Mr. Sharon: But the Arabs look back well before 9/11. In their way of thinking, you starved Iraqi children with the U.N. embargos. You are "occupying" Saudi Arabia with thousands of troops — as bin Laden himself announced to cheers! Do you really think there can be peace through military operations alone? The Iraqis live in misery; Cairo is a sewer; Syria a nightmare — they will just find more Saddams and Attas to lead them. Couldn't you have a regional conference, in which the Arab renegade states and the U.S. agree to disagree? Isn't that better than war?

Mr. Powell: With all due respect, Mr. Sharon — they, not we, caused their own misery. If Saddam Hussein spent the money on his people and not his own "authority," there would be plenty of food in Iraq. If he built houses rather than compounds for himself and his cronies there wouldn't be any squalid camps. No, the problem is our power and wealth that breeds frustration and envy — so theirs are perceived, not actual, complaints against us.

Mr. Sharon: Of course, we secretly agree. But if we were to profess that openly, then we would have to confess that the Palestinians hate us as much for our élan and success as for our entry into the West Bank. And as you know that would be viewed as ridiculous.

Mr. Powell: Look, this conversation is ridiculous. We have evidence that Saddam imported weapons in direct violation of our past understandings. We know he supports terrorists; and we've been at war with him before. If we excuse all that, he'll only view us with contempt and think he can get away with more. We let him off once in 1991 — and did that reprieve make him more or less reasonable? We blinked at his disruption of arms inspection and he got bolder for our indulgence. At some point, you must bite the bullet and accept that he has to go.

Mr. Sharon: Maybe. But after the last war, Saddam was bound to do something to recapture his prestige. After all, what could you expect when he was humiliated and shut up in his palaces? How could you expect him to be a real head of state or to rein in his extremists when you were occupying the country? If he dared criticize you, he might have been assassinated.

Remember, you controlled one third of his airspace and de facto are right now occupying the skies of Iraq. How can he create order when F-16s and Apaches are flying over Iraq — humiliating him in a so-called time of peace? With your gun at his head, if he negotiates with you, he's seen as weak on the street; if he's defiant, he's history. What options have you given him?

Mr. Powell: I am sorry that the Iraqis are not stronger to make the contest more even. Perhaps if Saddam killed more Americans then you'd be happier — at least it wouldn't look to the world as if we were the bullies? I don't think it is the policy of the American government to endanger its citizens so that the Iraqis won't be humiliated and in some distant scenario strike Israel.

Mr. Sharon: Well, OK, but just remember we have over a million Muslims in Israel, and when your bombs fall in Baghdad, they will take to the airwaves and streets here in Tel Aviv. Just so you know — our support for you costs us a lot even here at home.

Mr. Powell: Just give us thirty days — and then see whether there is more or less terrorism.

Mr. Sharon: How about ten? But what then is the endgame? You tried it once before, remember.

Mr. Powell: We plan on installing someone new this time who doesn't steal from his own people — and might just give them freedom and real elections.

Mr. Sharon: Hmmm, not a bad idea.

nationalreview.com