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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tekboy who wrote (25896)	4/18/2002 10:53:35 AM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hey, tekboy, surely would be interesting to see Fallaci articles translated into English and published in a reputable publication, wouldn't it? c2@you'dneedasbestoscovers.com

To: tekboy who wrote (25896)	4/18/2002 11:08:02 AM
From: JohnM	Respond to of 281500

Also, there's a difference between things it reports as news and things it publishes as opinion pieces. Thanks for the comments about The Guardian. A quick follow up with that quote above. I take it to mean that you think different criteria apply. Do you think they do a better job at one of the two, as well?

To: tekboy who wrote (25896)	4/18/2002 11:22:49 AM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Confessions of an Israeli reservist Saturday, 13 April, 2002, 15:16 GMT 16:16 UK newsvote.bbc.co.uk By Tarik Kafala BBC News Online, Jerusalem Israel has called up about 20,000 reservist soldiers to support its operations in the West Bank. But sending the reservists into refugee camps to destroy what the government calls the Palestinian "terrorist infrastructure" has been controversial. The most terrible thing is to go into houses and see that they are just regular families. The children with their wide frightened eyes, I find very difficult Yoni - Israeli reservist The killing of 13 reservists in an ambush on 9 April in the Jenin refugee camp shocked Israelis. Parents of the dead soldiers complained that their sons were sent unprepared into "a hornets' nest of terrorism". Yoni, a reservist serving in the West Bank, told BBC News Online: "We have become cannon fodder. We are reservists. Many people are asking why we don't just go in and carpet bomb the place." Yoni did not advocate the bombing of refugee camps because of the civilian casualties. But he said that even regular Israeli soldiers, let alone reservists, should not be sent into the alleys and tightly packed buildings of the Palestinian camps. International criticism The current operations on the West Bank are being strongly criticised internationally. The death toll among civilians is believed to be high and aid agencies say the humanitarian crisis in the closed off Palestinian towns and villages is critical. However, the operations are popular with the Israeli public as a response to a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings. Israeli leaders have made it clear that they will not pull back until their mission is completed. Cramped Palestinian towns are dangerous to patrol Yoni, who is probably in the minority in Israel, argued that he saw no military solution to the conflict because "it is about people". "Take this for an example," he said. "There is a village where we have intelligence that someone is planning a terrorist attack. "We surround the village and move in but there is a 17-year-old shepherd in a field on the edge of the village. He could be a terrorist, or he might warn them. Do I arrest him, blindfold him, tie his hands? Do I tell him to get inside quick. "We are trained to fight armies and soldiers, and yet we have to deal with people in this situation." The whole principle of Operation Defensive Shield was questionable, Yoni said. Hatred 'not personal' He and many of his colleagues, he said, are not as sure as their political and military leaders that the campaign in the West Bank will stop terrorist attacks. "How do you destroy the terrorist infrastructure? We can get the weapons and the terrorists, but this infrastructure is in people's hearts and it cannot be uprooted from there. "They hate me because I am an Israeli soldier, not personally. The people are not being held hostage by the terrorists, they sympathise with them. They think terrorism is going to help their national cause. "The most terrible thing is to go into houses and see that they are just regular families. The children with their wide frightened eyes, I find very difficult. We all have kids at home. "We are serving here because it is our duty. But I don't know where it is leading and we would all rather be at home." _______________________________________ tek: Last time I checked The BBC was a pretty credible news source -- sort of like an overseas version of NPR...When they start talking about a potential massacre in Jenin (as they have) I start taking it seriously. IMO, top Israeli officials got word that the devastation was SO BAD that they decided to come up with a justification to keep EVERYONE out of the refugee camp for over a week and a half...I have a hunch that they wanted to do as much 'cleanup' as they could. It's sad that international journalists and aid workers were not allowed into places like Jenin. It's also sad that our tax dollars may have been indirectly used to cause this kind of devastation...Sharon is no closer to peace then he was last month...IMO, he often feels the ends justify the means...yet, I think he is hypocrytical when he sits back in Israel and calls Arafat a terrorist and says that just a few dozen innocent civilians were killed in Jenin and the media is lying -- If he has nothing to hide then put the cards out on the table and let INDEPENDENT 3rd parties in to do their assessment. Initial reports that I have heard from multiple news sources are not promising --> it is possible that there was some type of 'massacre' that took place in Jenin -- and just maybe more than a few dozen innocent Palestinian civilians were killed. If this is the case will Mr. Sharon take responsibility for his IDF's actions...?? We MAY have a possible war criminal who is calling his archrival (Arafat) a terrorist...Will The U.S. hold Israel accountable for their actions...?? Believe me I do not support many of the things Arafat has done and I feel he has betrayed his people. Yet, Sharon may have caused just as much harm for his people, his allies, and clearly helped destabilize the entire Middle East region. The U.S. needs to practice a little more 'tough love' with Israel -- a democratic country that we should support (but not in an unconditional way). When our President says things like WITHDRAW COMPLETELY and NOW he should be willing to back up those statements -- because clearly IF Israel had withdrawn when Bush first called on them to do that then we would see much less devastation and instability in The Middle East. George Bush's credibility in the region would also be intact and Sharon needs to realize what he may have done to that. Sometimes the ends don't justify the means....JMHO.

To: tekboy who wrote (25896)	4/18/2002 1:59:22 PM
From: LLLefty	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>>>>tb@waffle.com <<< I don't think you supplied sufficient guidance to the poor fellow who has difficulty making up his mind. From what I've seen of his postings, he's a perfect match for the Guardian. Tt may clear up some of the greys and ambiguities he manufactures. The Guardian has no such problems. Some of my best English and Scots friends and in-laws wouldn't start their day without reading it. As I am, they are all for the poor and the oppressed, who, btw, prefer buying the tabloids. The Guardian hasn't found much to like about American presidents except for JFK. It thinks it, with an assist from the Foreign Office, would do a better job of running the world (replacing the Times) if only we would listen to them. >>>>there's a difference between things it reports as news and things it publishes as opinion pieces.<<<< Just from what I've seen posted here in the last weeks, I tend to think they've erased whatever line may or may not have existed. A form of journalistic malice seems to have become the driver.