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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: sylvester80 who wrote (25985)	4/18/2002 9:27:58 PM
From: art slott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The Palestinians are, ok were, massacreing Israelis almost daily. Thankfully Sharon, albet belatedly, realized Israel had no choice but to take the terror to where the terrorists were. The odds of getting blown to pieces with ones' morning coffee in Israel will be lower because of it.

To: sylvester80 who wrote (25985)	4/19/2002 6:46:54 PM
From: frankw1900	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Sylvester: Sure, I read the article. I've mentioned before that some Israelis are colonialist in their view of the captured territories and that some Israelis see the Palestinians as an underclass. But I also believe the vast majority would like to see Palestinians doing well in their own state. The obstacle to this is what I believe is a minority of both Israelis and Palestinians who don't want this reasonable outcome. Particularly the Palestinian leadership, who aren't trying for independence from the Israelis, but for the destruction of Israel. I say this because even when there were Israeli governments willing to support the success of the palestinian goal of independence, the palestinian leadership continued to physically attack Israel and and continued calling for its destruction. That is the proximate difficulty. The palestinians continue to attack the Israeli civilians and the Israelis become more repressive as they try to protect their civilians. Larger picture: Neither side is being reasonable. Jewish settlements in captured territories are a strategic and tactical mistake (not to speak of ethical problem). Palestinian emphasis on destruction of Israel is mistake in terms of their material and independence ambitions (not to speak of ethical problem) and slavish palestinian dependence on support from Israel's enemies has been a strategic mistake. Both sides are poisoned by the admixture of expansionary ideology from their religious fundamentalists. Both sides have done each other tremendous wrongs. If you expect the Israeli government, or any other government, to sit by while someone sends folk over their borders to murder their citizens, then you have mistaken ideas of what governments are for. If you expect the palestinians to live indefinitely under repressive conditions, you don't understand human nature. What you call* the violence from either side is irrelevant.* If an arrangement is come to by the Israelis and Palestinians that leads to a reasonable, peaceful solution, the terrorist label will disappear. In this regard the article you've cited several times wasn't written for you or me. The problem for Palestinian Israeli citizens is demonization as a result of the bombings in Israel. I'm sure they do suffer already from discrimination and don't wish to see their position worsened. The article was written for an Israeli audience despite its provenance. Despite what I think you claim, N Americans mostly don't think the palestinian folk are debased but do think a few of them are terrorists and that the remainder of them are very angry. Most would like to see an independent palestinian state.