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To: c.hinton who wrote (84585)	4/20/2002 1:47:02 AM
From: davemarkun	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116815

Yes, sadly he has been america's man in the arab world. why the US aligns itself with any of the arab despots is beyond comprehension. Mubarak, Abdullah, any of them are no better than Arafat. The entire Arab world lack the civil culture needed for democracy. That is at the root of its hatred for the west, and more particularly the USA. The combined economic output of the entire arab world is marginal given the size of their population. If one does not count the oil, it is even more pathetic. Underlying my comments is a total lack of concern what occurs in the "Arab Street". Having lived there, with its intolerance of minorities and particularly women, I can only conclude that it simply does not matter what they do so long as we restrain their terrorist tendencies.DSM

To: c.hinton who wrote (84585)	4/20/2002 11:26:09 AM
From: Richnorth	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116815

Although I don't agree with DSM as he is too much of a Dr. Watson (Sherlock Holmes' sidekick), and a cranky and prudish rabbi who wants others to be ashamed and feel guilty of sex even though he is a result of a deliberate or an "accidental" act of sex, I have to say that much of what he has said about the Muslim world is basically correct. If you have lived in a Muslim country as I have, you will get the feeling you have been transported back to the Dark or Middle Ages. Their blind fanaticism and their strict adherence to their Islamic Sharia (law) are incredible. Of course, as with every other society, moderates as well as hypocrites do exist in the Muslim world. That is to say not all Muslims are to be condemned as rabid haters of the Western world. Therefore, therein lies some hope for their salvation. To begin with, it is essential to "delegitimize" their claims against the West. For example, OBL wants the US to vamoose-beat-it-and-scram from Saudi Arabia and Saddam Hussein wants Kuwait back. I think if we have the technology to make us no longer dependent on oil, it should be easy enough to leave the Saudis and the Iraqis alone. But the real problem child is Israel. While Israel has legitimate claims based on their past historical presence in Canaan and on biblical references, Arafat and his Palestinians will not recognize the Israeli claims. It seems the whole problem is exacerbated by ongoing Israeli expansion and occupation of lands the Palestinians claim to be their very own. And, as if this is not bad enough, there is the perception that the Israeli expansion has the tacit approval and support of the West. Opinion in the West regarding the ongoing conflict, IMHO, has been skewed in favour of Israel both by effective Israeli propaganda (a la Goebbels, a former nemesis) and by vested western interests in that region. All this coupled with the fact that the Muslims were defeated and humiliated time and time again in history (from the Crusades of yore to modern times) have etched in the Muslim psyche a fanatical antagonism and hatred against the West in general. From this, it is easy to understand why the Palestinians have become such a schizophrenic (self-persecuting) society that is so readily manipulated by Arafat and his henchmen into becoming "martyrs". But, unfortunately, the schools of today do not teach much history with the result that many people don't know enough about the origin of the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, and all too often they are swayed by propaganda. To be sure, many Israelis and Palestinians have big headaches and big problems. I don't presume to have a solution. But from his numerous postings, I believe Dave Markun (DSM), the prudish rabbi, can "HELP" them to become less and less evil and finally make peace with each other for all time. He is also well-suited for this mission because, as he is so prudish, he could "persuade" them to reproduce less and less --- hopefully to the point where the Palestinians' sense of preservation of their national identity of will preclude them from blowing themselves up anymore. Someone on this GPM thread once suggested to me by PM that the US should carve up a piece of real estate to re-settle the Palestinians in the US. I told him that while this is a viable concept, the Palestinians will refuse outright because their pride will not allow them to appear to be sucking at the American tit. Besides their fellow Arabs will most certainly discourage them. But that someone did not suggest that the Israelis should be re-settled here. Why not? 'Dunno! Of course, the simplest solution (and mind you, I say this in jest) is to dehumanize the entire region by exploding a couple of megaton nukes there. In a split second, all the antagonists will be transported to eternity. What about the oil, you might say? Well, if we don't get it, we will somehow make do with something else. Remember: necessity is the mother of invention! O yes, that may provide the needed impetus for solving the hydrogen fusion problem. BTW, nuking that area would be like surgically removing a cancerous growth which otherwise will not only continue to sap the vitality and peace of the world but cause death. IMHO, something very drastic/dramatic/explosive has to happen before the warring parties will come to their senses.