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To: Charles Gryba who wrote (164715)	4/29/2002 8:07:44 PM
From: Elmer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

wbmw, the very first palominos were not very good overclockers either. They barely run at 1533 Mhz. They managed to get another 300Mhz ( 20% ) out of them so that's what I would expect from TBred. Palominos used a new transistor from the .13u process generation. Don't expect AMD to be able to borrow from the future again. EP

To: Charles Gryba who wrote (164715)	4/29/2002 10:05:41 PM
From: wanna_bmw	Respond to of 186894

Constantine, Re: "the very first palominos were not very good overclockers either. They barely run at 1533 Mhz. They managed to get another 300Mhz ( 20% ) out of them so that's what I would expect from TBred." The very first Palomino had a top bin of 1533MHz, and over its lifetime, AMD was able to increase this 200MHz to 1733MHz, a 13% improvement, but they had to fine tune their transistor lengths in order to do it. Thoroughbred seems to have started out at about 1667MHz, give or take, and if AMD meets its launch commitment, then it will get up to 1800MHz. Maybe a few optimizations in the routing, a few tweaks in the process, and some further transistor scaling might get it up to 2000MHz. On their "current" roadmap, AMD projects 2067MHz by the end of the year. That would give Thoroughbred a 400MHz increase over where it is now - double what AMD was able to get from Palomino. I'm not saying it's impossible - just that their goals are higher this time, and they seem to have less to work with. wbmw

To: Charles Gryba who wrote (164715)	4/30/2002 1:27:45 AM
From: Jim McMannis	Respond to of 186894

RE:"the very first palominos were not very good overclockers either. They barely run at 1533 Mhz. They managed to get another 300Mhz ( 20% ) out of them so that's what I would expect from TBred." I believe the 2100+ Palomino runs at 1733 Mhz. My 1900+ runs at 1600 anyway and 66 Mhz gets you 100 in PR. So 333 Mhz takes the t-bred to 2066 Mhz or 2600+ in quantispeed cosidering no core IPC enhancement.... Even then the P4 is supposed to lope along at 3000 Mhz at the end of the year so Athlon/t-bred is not the answer, Hammer is but unlike the Athlon which when it was introduced it could basically outscale the flagship Intel chip. The Hammer will have to rely on quantispeed right out of the gate.