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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: nealm who wrote (252404)	5/2/2002 11:46:49 PM
From: Krowbar	Respond to of 769670

< You read their web page. I read the patent. That's difference between you and me. I reference an informative articles from the US Navy (I'll bet you did not read it), you reference a fly-by night advocacy web pages. > First take some English lessons. Next try to make your posts intelligible. Whose web page and whose patent are you talking about? What article from the U.S. Navy? Am I supposed to guess? Are you still claiming that Ballard's fuel cell runs on gasoline? I would like to see that claim in their patent. < Do you know what word "hydride" means or for that matter what electrolyte means? Acqueous, H+ OH- do any of these terms sound familiar? To think you lecturing ME on what a battery is. I'm demoting you from Commissar of Hydrogen to Idiot Savant. > I sure do know what a hydride is, and it is evident that you don't. One more time. It is NOT a battery. You calling it one doesn't make it so. < The bottom line is Hydrogen gas engines is basically a weak version of natural gas engines. According to Washington Post natural gas based buses go for twice the cost of diesel. It would be interesting to see what a hydrogen engine goes for. > Conventional engines can run on hydrogen with minor modifications, mostly to protect against the effects of water vapor that is the exhaust, for instance coating the cylinder heads. < Before you go spouting off on SI again on something you don't fundamentally understand learn the difference between H and H2. Ok? > I've known the difference for 40 years now. Is that good enough? H2 is diatomic and H is atomic. Big deal. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I was wrong about something that I posted. Del

To: nealm who wrote (252404)	5/2/2002 11:53:17 PM
From: Krowbar	Respond to of 769670

GM Demonstrates World's First Gasoline-Fed Fuel Cell Vehicle Technology has far-reaching potential for cars, homes and business HONEOYE FALLS, NY. - General Motors Corp. made history today by demonstrating the world's first drivable fuel cell vehicle that extracts hydrogen from gasoline to produce electricity. "This vehicle and the reforming technology in it move us closer to a hydrogen economy," said Larry Burns, GM's Vice President of Research and Development, and Planning. "This is a drivable lab that is helping us to learn to reform fuels for fuel cells to power cars, homes and businesses. A lot of people said we couldn't use gasoline to power a fuel cell system. Well, we did it." The Chevrolet S-10 fuel cell pickup is equipped with a fuel processor that reforms low-sulfur gasoline onboard by a series of chemical reactions. The fuel is mixed with air and water, and then passed over a series of catalysts that break apart - or "crack" - the hydrogen from the carbon. The resulting stream of hydrogen is sent to the fuel cell stack, where it is combined with oxygen from the air to produce electricity. When linked with a fuel cell stack, the reformer technology in the vehicle could achieve up to 40 percent overall energy efficiency, which is a 50 percent improvement over a conventional internal combustion engine. With a reformer fuel cell, the S-10 pickup could approach 40 mpg. Carbon dioxide emissions would be cut by up to 50 percent if the gasoline was reformed onboard and greatly reduced if the reformer were placed at the gas station. All regulated emissions would be nearly eliminated, except for trace amounts of carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons. There are no oxides of nitrogen. The fuel cell technology in the S-10 also plays a key role in the transition to a hydrogen-based economy. GM envisions being able to have your car power your home and your home becoming a source of hydrogen for your car. According to Burns, there will be a number of sources for creating hydrogen and the competition will help spur the use of fuel cells. "You can reform gasoline onboard or at the gas station to produce hydrogen or you can create it at your home or business," Burns explained. "You can reform natural gas at your home or you can electrolyze water. Your home or office could become an alternative to a gas station in the future. "In most cases, you already have natural gas, water and electricity coming into your home or place of business. To create hydrogen, all that is missing is a natural gas reformer or an electrolyzer. Bottom line, the transition will happen faster because there will be so many competing ways to refuel without replacing the existing infrastructure." The neighborhood gas station would also evolve. By taking the reformer off the vehicle and putting it at the pump, people would refuel much the same way as they do now. The only difference is they would pull up to a pump supplying hydrogen reformed from gasoline. "Just as the auto companies are competing on vehicle technology, we believe existing energy providers - oil companies, natural gas companies and electric utilities - as well as new start up energy companies, will compete to provide the fuel for fuel cell vehicles. "For this reason, gasoline remains a very viable alternative, especially given the existing fuel distribution infrastructure," Burns said. "The infrastructure isn't going to go away. That asset base is simply too big to just disappear as the hydrogen economy comes about. I believe the petroleum companies will play an active role in developing the hydrogen economy. Gasoline is an efficient way to distribute hydrogen, whether the reformer is on the vehicle or in the pump." While petroleum may prove to be the best interim solution for obtaining hydrogen, the end-goal is a world powered by hydrogen produced from a variety of feedstocks - crude oils, natural gas, coal or renewable - whatever combination proves to be the most viable. During the next year, GM engineers will put the vehicle through rigorous testing to more clearly determine such things as range, efficiency, emissions and fuel-reforming characteristics. Burns remains confident about finding solutions to issues such as cost, hydrogen storage and supplying fuel to these fuel cell vehicles. "I feel very good about where we are at this point in the fuel cell race," Burns said. "We have leadership positions in stack technology, and vehicle systems and controls. We've made great progress on the fundamentals of fuel reforming and electrolyzer technology. I'm confident we will come up with an optimal storage system soon. By the end of this decade, you can expect to see affordable, profitable fuel cell vehicles on the road." gm.com Del