To: Solon who wrote (11787 ) 5/3/2002 11:54:48 AM From: TimF Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 21057 Generally homopbes have a sense of being "threatened". This may result in reactive aggression. If there is no objective threat, then both the anxiety and the discrimiation are irrational. I covered this with you already. Unless you are using the term homophobe very narrowly I disagree with your psychoanalysis or the group that you are calling homophobes, more specifically with the idea that such an opinion of them should be assumed in the word to discribe them. The consequences of irrational hatred, whether it be homophobia or misogyny, or something else...is important to all decent people--not only to the victims. Agreed. If someone is violent or even just hateful and unjustly discriminatory then the consequences of that hate can be and often should be important to everyone. I am not posting in support of hate, discrimination or violence but rather just about the use of a particular word. Also the importance of this current subject to me is less then what the amount of words I have posted about it would seem to indicate. I think we are both sometimes reluctant to just walk away from the discussion if we think it has not been fully resolved. "I do think that calling them homophobes without evidence of irrational fear is a good use of the language" This is not what you said before Thats been the issue the whole time. I started by saying I don't like the word (or really how it is sometimes used) because it is used to imply irrational fear where there may be no such fear. In my last post about this I phrased it a little differently, perhaps in a better clearer way, but the point itself has not changed. "I'm not sure a specific word for people who hate homosexuals is needed" Why not?? We have a specific word for people who hate everything else, right?? Let us take people who hate women. Statistics show that far less people have an irrational hatred of women than do of homosexuals. I have not heard you complaining about misogyny. Why should there not be a word for people who hate homosexuals? Do you see where you have walked?? I didn't say I was against such a word existing or even that it wasn't needed, just that I wasn't sure it was needed. I don't complain about misogyny because I don't think it implies that misogynists feel the way they do because of irrational fear (of course some of them probably do have an irrational fear of women, but many of them do not and for those that do there is another word gynophobe. Also I think the word misogynist is applied in a more narrow way then homophobe. If I see someone use misogynist ( dictionary.com - "One who hates women." ) to describe people who for religious reasons don't think women should be priests (or would that be priestesses) or ministers or whatever in their church, or to describe people who think that we shouldn't have women in the infantry or on nuclear attack subs, then I would object to the term unless I had specific evidence that the person really did hate women. I guess your right that it would be useful to have a word that was the equivalent of misogynist but applied to hatred of homosexuals. That way homophobia would be limited to being the equivalent of gynophobia, and none of the four words should be automatically applied to people who disagree with gays or women in the infantry. If you disagree with these people it should be quite possible to argue that they are wrong without stating or implying that the person you are arguing with is full of hate or irrational fear. Do you see where you have walked?? I see you think I have walked somewhere that I have not. Tim