To: Solon who wrote (12681 ) 5/10/2002 5:42:37 PM From: TimF Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 21057 Now you are beginning to understand. It is the same reason that Enron can dupe millions of investors, or that thousands of companies can pay their Board half million dollar salaries and stock options and bonusses when the company has .13 cents in the bank and a demand loan owing at 20%. Yes these things can happen in the private sector but Enron is done for because of them, and its officers face investigation and possible civil or even criminal liability. The DoD is still around and there is less information about what happened to the money then there is with Enron. So far no major Pentagon leader (military or civilian) has been disciplined because of this, or as far as I know even investigated. Its not that I want the DoD to go away its job is necessary, its just that I recognize that the fact that it wont go away means it can continue to mess up like this. With Enron you had an accounting scam. People knew where the money went but they tried to hide the fact so that their stock options would go up. At the Pentagon the money simply can't be accounted for, even after the story has gone public. Productivity is evaluated by the benefit of what is being done , not by how much time is left to spend on other things. And if you spend more time doing one thing the net result is the total of what is being done is lower. If you could reduce the amount of time the work took you could use that time to do more work and thus increase what is being done , which would presumably increase the " benefit of what is being done ", unless you where doing something that produced no benefit, and if the government is doing that I don't think it should be considered very productive. My point is that it (government) operates within market forces Well not much to say here. At least I understand one of the reasons why we disagree. I don't see government as really being subject to market forces when it makes its decisions. The cost of those decisions will of course depend on market forces, but the motivation for them is political not economic supply and demand. Your statement that public employees were less productive than private employees sounded flippant to me. Nothing flippant about it, whether it is wrong or right. I was entirely serious and intended no disrespect either to you or to public center employees. As I pointed out more then once I think the system the employees are in makes them less productive. Even if this is not true it would only mean that I had an incorrect opinion on this matter, not that I am showing disrespect to them. If a thought is serious and not disrespectful I don't see how it can be flippant by definition. Tim