How come its always Israel that is going to get destroyed but its the Palestinians with the higher death toll and greater degree of property damage?
Just for moment can you stay neutral long enough to see the incongruity of your statement. The Palestinians are paying the dearer price for maintaining this conflict.
Several reasons:
- Palestinians are just the tip of the iceberg, they are trying to incite the Arab world, which can pose serious threat to Israel.
Joe, the Palestinians are not trying to incite the other Arabs, because they don't need to........the other Arabs are incited already. I think its us they are trying to incite.
- Israel is much more fragile than it seems.
Israel no longer is fragile.......by anyone's account she is a minor super power......I was very surprised at her military capabilities. Do a Google search..... you will be surprised how powerful Israel has become. She has come a long way militarily in part from the assistance we provide each year.
BTW that has been the case since day 1. Israel always has presented herself as fragile and no one ever believed she could hold off the Arab armies during the 1948 war. However, the truth was that even then she was more powerful than the other countries in the region.
What makes it strong is support from the US, kind of unwritten understanding that the US will not allow Israel to be crushed. This sustains the Jews in Israel, otherwise, there would be threat that some would start to flee from Israel, and the snowball effect would seriously damage Israeli economy, which in turn pays for 1st class military
I understand the psychological importance to Israelis of the US's support of the Israel. Unfortunately, the Israelis don't understand that importance; in fact, I think they have begun to take our support for granted. Sharon should have his ass kicked for some of the things he has said re our relationship with them.
- any kind of mixing of third world people into Israel ("right of return" of Palestians is one of the conditions of "peace") would destroy Israel. See Kosovo as example. Albanian with their birth rate turned Kosovo into a third world country, The Serbs fled the third world Albanians from Kosovo to Serbia, became a minority, and Kosovo subsequently imploded (with push by the US, but implosion with descend into third world was inevitable). The same would happen in Israel.
Then why does Israel not offer reparation to the Palestinians for the land and property they took from the Palestinians in 1948? After all, the Israelis are litigating with the Swiss in order to get reparation for the property they lost during WW II.
Just one very small example is the Likud Party saying there can be no Palestinian state. You blow it off as if it were simple words spoken by an idiot savant. The Likud is currently the ruling party of Israel and one of its major parties. Since its inception, the Likud as been opposed to a free Palestinian state. You yourself admit that probably most Israelis agree.
Saying this ignores the sequence of events. The population of Israel went in the big way for this "give peace a chance", voted for Labor with big margins. Likud became a bystander, a skeptic on the sideline (with exception of times when Labor nominated Peres as their prime minister. He always loses, no matter who the opponent is). It is the Palestinian terrorists and Arafat who proved Likud right (which is that Palestinians and Arafat cannot be trusted). Israeli citizens are not blind or stupid. They learned from their mistake (trusting Palestinians), and now they are skeptical.
How did the Israelis go for peace in a big way? The Israelis notion of peace in a big way is to give the Palestinians an extension on their curfew.......you can stay out til midnite now instead 10 o'clock. Again, the truth is that there is a difference between what Israel would have us believe and what the reality is. I would not accept a peace and a proposal for statehood where the adjacent country gets to keep some of their citizens and military within my borders. Would you? That is one of several onerous stipulations placed on the issue of Palestinian statehood by Israel.
And yet you think it has little impact on the Palestinians? I not only think it has impact; I suspect its an affront to the Palestinians, and p*sses them off to know end.
Ok, there were all the wars, occupation, intifada etc. suspended by the Oslo negotiation which broke the cycle of violence - with a period of relative peace (almost unbelievable by Mid East standards). This was ended by resumption of war on Israel by Palestinians about a year or 2 ago. Now, are you saying that Palestinians did not understand that resumption of war on Israel means forfeiting any possibility of Palestinian state?
Why did the Palestinians resume the intifada? Because they got what they wanted and now they want to have a war for the fun of it? Please...........neither of us are that stupid to believe such nonsense. The Israelis give concessions in centimeters and then take it all back at any sign of trouble. Israel wants the WB and Gaza for expansion purposes....that's the truth of the matter. And they come up with all kinds of reasons why they should be permitted to have them. When Sharon was Housing Minister in the early '90's, the areas that got the most new housing were the settlements in the occupied territories........now that shows his committment to a free and independent Palestinian state.
They fully understand that. They could have had Palestinian state by now, but Palestinian State and peace is not what the extremists want. Arafat had a choice to either battle the extremists or be with them (meaning giving up on the Palestinian state). He chose to go with the extremists. His popularity took a serious beating while he was negotiating with Israel, and was at all time low at the time the agreement leading to Palestinian State was almost worked out. Seing that majority of Palestinians want war not peace, he reversed his direction, gave green light to new intifada, leaving the negotiators (and Clinton) stunned.
His popularity was at an all time low because he was giving away the store. Do you think there would be a Hamas if Israel had been fair in her negotiations with the Palestinians? It is incredible.......the Israelis offer crumbs and when the Palestinians spit in return, the Israelis say; "The only thing that will make them happy is to see us gone.......there is nothing we can do but fight them." Its how this war gets perpetuated; the Israelis remind me of the rich old geezer who won't part with a nickel even to help his poor relations.....and his excuse; he barely has enough to support himself. Its BS.
Israel chose to move into the neighborhood and had nearly hundred years to get familiar with the texture and tone of its new neighbors before its independence. None of the current animosity can be a surprise.
After 50+ years, it is a surprise to me.
Then you are naive. What two religions ever get along in this world? Even the Catholics and Protestant can't get along in N. Eire and they are both Christian religions.
So to answer your question, yes, I can say we should cut off support to Israel and Palestine if they continue to threaten the stability of the Mideast region as well as the world. The Likud party continues to become more radicalized and along with suicide bombers, is one of several threats to the peace process in the Mideast.
Again, you are assuming equal "guilt". But for the sake of argument, I will agree. So we cut to $0 the $100 we give to Israel and $10 we give to Palestinians. But you can be sure that not only will the Arab states not cut the $90 they give to Palestinians, they will increse it to $180, seing a possibility of achieving victory over Israel.
I don't care what the Arabs do. Our support of Israel has created a monster who forgets too easily whose largesse made her the super power she is.
And why would you treat the Palestinians as the Germans were treated.....talk about a lack of moral equivalency. Palestine has not set up death camps, its not invaded and annexed several countries, its not amassing at the Israeli border.......... It seems to me that the perception of the Palestinians tends to diverge from the reality of who they are, and is colored almost exclusively by the acts of the suicide bombers and Arafat.
Arafat - I don't care about. But homicide bombers - definitely. I want them killed, crushed, defeated, and with them ALL their supporters. Anything Israel or anyone else does to crush them, to kill them is fine with me.
Would you then crush all the Palestinians in order to get rid of the few?
I see the militant Islam in the same light as Nazi Germany. 9/11 may be like 1933. The militant Islam needs to be crushed, and why not do it while it is still weak?
I thought we were doing it. What is all the ruckus that's going on in Afghanistan? Training exercises?
Do you want to wait until the frontline of the battle with militant Islam moves to America? Wait, it already has. What do you want to wait for? I have no problem seing a bullet through the head of every Palestinian celebrating 9/11. And if it does not happen, chances that some bullet will go through your head or mine go up.
See it all comes down to fear. Do you really think that by killing all the terrorists the danger will go away and the fear will stop? So long as things stay the way they are, with every terrorist we kill two more will pop up to take their place. The Western countries are not entirely responsible for conditions in the Mideast [and I am not just talking about Israel], but we have played a role in helping to get things to their current mess.
One example is the way the Brits exercised their mandate in Israel/Palestine. They were not fair......they treated the Palestinians like they were chattel. And when the Palestinian Arabs disagreed with Britain's handling of their affairs, they were put down and ignored.
This feud did not just start ten or even 50 years ago. It began at the turn of the twentieth century and things have never been made right since.
ted |
