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Politics : Idea Of The Day -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (42602)	5/19/2002 9:19:09 PM
From: vish ramamurthy	Respond to of 50167

Hi Iqbal, I have been reading with great interest your defence of Pakistan. My problem is not with YOUR intentions but with the intentions of those you trust namely, Gen. Musharraf, the Pakistan Army and the dreaded ISI. I feel Musharraf is not to be trusted..how can you trust somebody who, for years actively aided and abetted terrorism in Afghanistan and India. Atrocities were committed in Afghanistan and the world including Pakistan (read Musharraf) did not care. It is only after the US was attacked that it became a big problem. Coming back to Musharraf, your claim that he had a change of heart after Sept 11 is hard to believe. I think he was forced to have a change of heart by the US ultimatum and now he proclaims to be in the forefront of terrorism. Where was he prior to Sept 11 ? Let me take you back about 10 years (after the Afghan war). Kashmir although a disputed land was still a relatively peaceful place, until the Pakistani establishment came up with this idea of a proxy war to be waged with the militants who had just come back from the Afghan war and had nothing better to do. Since that time, Pakistan has systematically waging this proxy war with India supplying the terrorists with arms and money to do their evil deeds. In fact over 55,000 lives have been lost in India on account of Pakistan sponsored terrorism. Do you recall the hijacking of an Indian airliner from Kathmandu to Kabul ? The hijackers after murdering a passenger (who was on his honeymoon with his wife) were taken by bus to the Pakistan border and let go. Did the Pakistan govt do something about apprehending the hijackers ? Of course not..in fact the hijackers (Omar Sheikh of Daniel Pearl fame was one of them) were allowed to roam around freely. India had cautioned the US at that time that this problem will not stop at India but will spread throughout the world, words the US chose to ignore. In fact many facets of the Sept 11 operation originated from Pakistan (sending money to Atta from Pakistan is one that comes to mind). Regarding your claim that India is bullying Pakistan, I would like to point out that the 3 past wars have been initiated by Pakistan for various reasons. The recent Kargil incursion by Pakistan could have developed into a full scale war if it were not for the restraint exercised by India. So, if anything India has exercised the utmost patience and restraint in spite of being the victim (unlike the Israelis who you seemed to support strongly). Currently, Pakistan's strategy seems to be to raise the ante (in fact almost inviting retaliation) and have outsiders (like the US) come and intervene to settle the Kashmir issue. I don't think that is going to work. Bottom line, I think unless Pakistan is willing to accept the current boundaries (LOC) as the border, we will be at war. Pakistan will not be able to get its hands on the rest of Kashmir (it already has annexed about 50%, i think) because the very survival of India is at stake. Before Pakistan asks for Kashmir maybe they should give the Sindhis and Punjabis and other ethnic communities their own country. Also, note that Pakistan is only demanding Kashmir be handed over to Pakistan. Nowhere is the 3rd option of an independent Kashmir ever discussed. Of course a referendum today will favor merging with Pakistan because the Pakistan sponsored terrorists have done a good job of ethnically cleansing Kashmir of non-muslims. So, on the one hand Musharraf says the right things regarding terrorism but looks the other way if it involves atrocities in India. Yeah, he faithfully condemns it lately, but either he is helpless to stop it or he doesn't want to stop it because it is certainly hurting his enemy. It is fairly obvious that India's policy of going nuclear is certainly not aimed at Pakistan but at China. China is playing an even more dangerous game by helping Pakistan go nuclear. In fact China is waging a proxy war with India using Pakistan. This meshes well with the Chinese strategy of having weak and poor neighbors. With neighbors like China and Pakistan can you blame India for going nuclear ? So, as long as we fight over this piece of land we are doomed to live in poverty and ignorance. I do not want to debate you about the social problems in India. Every country has its own unique set of problems to deal with. The caste issue in India is similar to the race problem in the US and it will take a few generations before the problem can be eliminated. I don't think they have any relevance on the current standoff. Lastly, I have not visited Pakistan but I cannot believe it is a very prosperous country, as portrayed by you. At last check, the per capita income of Pakistan is almost the same as India. So, it is in both countries interests to put this conflict behind us and focus on the well being of our people. Regards, Vish

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (42602)	5/20/2002 11:58:48 AM
From: arun gera	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 50167

>I have the guts and -alls to condemn my roots and my ideology and evils of my society your blindfolded support of a decaying society that is heading towards a major catastrophe is shocking, that is the fine difference between belligerence and calm rational attitude> And I respect you for that. But then, when you suck up to Musharraf and Bush.... Hmmm... >Let us examine the terror in Indian culture of innate inequity of human beings that is enshrined in your beliefs. Like in your culture it is dalit, or complete lack of human equality where you condemn humanity to vagaries of caste and untouchables en- block, if Islamic extremists encourages blood shed of innocents you condone living human beings rejection to lowest of levels of living as a mater of honour both equally detestable.> How can you equate the two? Are you telling me that the whole world is egalitarian and only India has class differences? It is true that caste is still a factor in elections in India, especially in rural areas. And it unfortunately works the other way too. I have known of people who have falsified their castes to get preferential admission in Indian universities, where 10-20 percent of seats are reserved for what are called Scheduled Caste and Tribes, in the Indian version of Affirmative Action. And the Mandal commission proposed that this number be increased to about 50 percent, making it a complete mockery of the education system. Again a significant percentage of government jobs are reserved for Scheduled Caste/Tribe. In the past you have implied that your Muslim brethren in India have somehow been denied an opportunity to become scientists and engineers. Other than economic factors and ability, there is nothing stopping a Muslim in India to get the same educational and opportunities as other communities. >When America attacks Al-Qaeeda, depraved terrorists are the targets, however in the case of India it castigates an entire nation, Pakistan in this case, because of the actions of fringe elements in the nation.> Remember Kargil in 1999. The depraved terrorists were fully supported by Pakistani military. And who was the Pakistani General in charge? >I have the guts and -alls to condemn my roots and my ideology and evils of my society your blindfolded support of a decaying society that is heading towards a major catastrophe is shocking, that is the fine difference between belligerence and calm rational attitude.> How many people of Indian origin on this or other threads have criticized the Pakistani soicety? The main criticism has always been against the Pakistani military. And who is providing blindfolded support to India's decaying society? And how do you judge India's society when no Indian is judging the Pakistani society. And India is just too complex to be classified in simple terms as a "decaying society". >Radicalism and zeal exist in every society and they are not unique to a specific nation or culture, India has her fair share of fanatics and what sets our fringe elements apart is their desire to topple the Indian occupation of Kashmir, which has its roots in historical set of events which are strongly disputed.> Nobody is denying that India does not have its own share of fanatics. And really, and how about your fanatics who took over Afghanistan. Now please don't blame that on India. What was the historical significance there? And Kashmir. It is too long a subject to discuss right now. More later. Arun