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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (30412)	5/22/2002 9:33:09 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

So I can understand, but not share, your feelings towards Germany. I hope you didn't take offense at my lame joke. Anybody with a British or Irish BG who doesn't think he has a lot of "German" in him never read British History, and, of course, we have had a lot of mixture here. I spent from 54 to 56 stationed in Germany as a GI. Age 18 to 20. Still listed as occupied, still getting paid in "Script". Had a wonderful time. I was in one of the the worst places to be stationed, Baumholder. But, I got all over Europe. 4 marks to the Dollar, and we were King. (It's gooooood to be King!)

To: Ilaine who wrote (30412)	5/22/2002 10:06:06 PM
From: Zeev Hed	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I think you do not understand too well the history out there, now you blame the US for not providing a Marshal plan in 1918? And no, just because shivers pass through my spine, I don't hate Germans, but Germans should not try and pass on to others the responsibility for allowing WWII and its associated misdeeds, Germany is what it is today because enough Germans leaders, from Adenauer on, accepted that responsibility and decided to learn from it. Zeev

To: Ilaine who wrote (30412)	5/22/2002 10:20:31 PM
From: Elsewhere	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

As CobaltBlue wrote the term "Stadtluft macht frei" goes back to the 12th century: Mittelalterliche Stadtgeschichte asn-ibk.ac.at But I also understand Zeev Hed's post. The German history 1933-1945 is well-known, about six million Jews were killed by Germans, and Gate I of Auschwitz actually displayed the sentence "Arbeit macht frei": auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl It is human to have strong feelings about this dark past, I am used to it. #reply-17267715 In college I had a Jewish dormmate for two years who never spoke with me. These emotions ranging from aversion to horror and hate I experience are nothing compared to what the victims had to suffer. Not only in personal life but also in politics the shadows of the past still influence the presence. In a sense, the whole ME mess wouldn't have come about without the Nazis. No anti-Semitic pogroms -> no zionism -> no state of Israel. All responsible contemporary German politicians know about this causality. The nation has to live with its past and can only try to be as constructive a partner for Israel as possible. The German people has experienced that state authority can be utterly corrupted and that misdirected military might leads to catastrophic consequences. These are lessons deeply ingrained after WW II which explain why Germans still are very hesitant about taking part in international military missions. Actually the Kosovo war, more than five decades after the end of WW II, was the first time that the Bundeswehr took part in a battle mission. (It had to be dragged into it, otherwise the international pressure would have been too strong if the government had continued the "checkbook diplomacy" which it had practiced as late as Gulf War I.) With this background maybe some of the hawkish thread participants understand better why I believe it is unlikely that Germany will assume an active military role in a possible Iraq attack. Better be ridiculed as a peacenik nation than as an imperialist 4th Reich. Some left-wingers already criticize the current red-green German government for being just that: the next Nazi regime.