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Politics : Idea Of The Day -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Narotham Reddy who wrote (42701)5/24/2002 2:20:43 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
Best of luck for India to reach there goal, but look at this what Steve Cohen has to say about you guys..

<Clearly, the Pakistan government is supporting or tolerating intolerable groups, sometimes quite cynically, but the Indian government was not a Lockean paradise for Kashmiris for many, many years.> Steve Cohen

Dear Dr. Cohen,

In an earlier Online Talk you said (w.r.t. to Kashmiri militants) "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". How far are you willing to carry this linguistic and moral relativism? Would you apply it to the case of Timothy McVeigh, for instance? Why not provide an objective definition and apply it rigorously.

In my view a freedom fighter is a person fighting to establish a free state (i.e. a state which recognizes and protects individual rights, as defined by John Locke). By this definition the Kashmiri militants cannot be called freedom fighters because they are trying to establish or merge with an authoritarian Islamic or semi-islamic state. Your comments please?

Puneet Bhandari



Dear Puneet:

I like your distinction. However, is murdering a child or an innocent justified when one wants to establish a free and democratic state? How many innocents can be murdered and still have the ends (establishing a free, democratic state) justify the means (murder). In the abstract, I am a Gandhian, and abhor political violence, but I recognize that mankind is also a tragic animal, and must, at times, do immoral or unpleasant things.

As for the Jehadis in Kashmir, I would distinguish between the Kashmiris who feel (with some justification) that they live under Indian oppression—this view is shared by most objective Indian observers of the situation—and the terrorist tourists, who have no moral or personal stake in Kashmir. But some of these groups, like the Americans who fought on the allied side before we entered WW2, believe they are fighting for justice.

Perhaps the real evil is practiced by the politicians and intelligence agencies who use the idealistic young who are willing to die for a "cause", and who then cynically sell them out later. Clearly, the Pakistan government is supporting or tolerating intolerable groups, sometimes quite cynically, but the Indian government was not a Lockean paradise for Kashmiris for many, many years. India is the world's largest democracy, but has its flaws (like other democracies). The problem is not labels, but how people are treated.



To: Narotham Reddy who wrote (42701)5/24/2002 2:25:08 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF  Respond to of 50167
 
Same Steve Cohen had also this to say about us..

There also isn’t another foreigner who knows the Pakistani generals as well as Cohen does. How would he compare Musharraf with Zia? There is no comparison he says. Zia was clever, cunning, a man who trusted no one but himself. ‘‘How would you describe him? May be, as they say in Yiddish, a mench (approximately translated as a savvy gentleman).’’ Musharraf, on the other hand, needs people around him he can trust. But he thinks Musharraf has a great opportunity not only to turn the fortunes of his own country but to also help bring peace in the region. His situation, he says, could be a bit like Harry Truman’s, a man of average abilities but placed in opportune circumstances. But it won’t be easy, he says, for the picture in the region is so incredibly complicated. That is the problem with Pakistan, he says, cursed by history, but blessed by geography. Always in the right place at the wrong time.

As with so many others who specialise on the subcontinent, Steve is often a victim of competitive affections or resentments. Many Indians see him as being overly friendly to the Pakistanis. Many Pakistanis similarly say he has flipped to India’s side. Cohen, however, has written landmark books on both armies and loves them. Can you imagine, he asks, if India had not been partitioned and this was one army? He recalls Field Marshall Auchinleck telling him in an interview more than three decades ago that his greatest regret was that Mountbatten had partitioned such a fine army. ‘‘If India had not been partitioned,’’ Cohen says to me, ‘‘I would have been sitting here not with you but with a Chinese and we would be talking about how to contain this mighty India that straddles all the oil routes, dominates central Asia and so on.’’

P.S. Mr. Reddy do realise that you are not dealing with butter fingers and war is not a game of kids..part of that fine Army is here in our part and a very discipline one too..Mush is around and I doubt short of out of strange he is going anywhere.. India has never done business with any of our leaders you know that..



To: Narotham Reddy who wrote (42701)5/24/2002 2:43:41 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF  Respond to of 50167
 
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA,, the guy writes extensively against Pakistan, has no worth outside India..author of 'Horse that flew.'

Look at his nonsense one after the other..most of it 'assumptions' and hype to destroy our nation..post 11th sept..Omar and his accoplices now 7 of them await trial and probably will be sent to USA after the verdict..he jumped the gun too soon.. FBI and CIA is interrogating him and 2 FBI officials have already testified against Omar in this Pearl case..

TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ THURSDAY, MARCH 28, 2002 9:44:59 PM ]

WASHINGTON: Pakistan's military ruler Pervez Musharraf reportedly told the US ambassador in Islamabad that he would rather "hang himself" than extradite Sheikh Omar Sayeed, one of many instances of backsliding that has called into question Pakistan's credibility as a frontline state in the war against terrorism. CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ THURSDAY, MARCH 28, 2002 9:44:59 PM ]

WASHINGTON: istan's military ruler Pervez Musharraf reportedly told the US ambassador in Islamabad that he would rather "hang himself" than extradite Sheikh Omar Sayeed, one of many instances of backsliding that has called into question Pakistan's credibility as a frontline state in the war against terrorism.

Pakistan's intelligence service has also resumed helping both the al-Qaeda and Taliban forces in the west and Kashmiri insurgents in the east, according to accounts from Afghan and US sources. It has also begun to release hundreds of militants arrested in the aftermath of 9/11 on the mere promise that they will "behave" in the future.

P.S. All this has been proven wrong so far..

No one can win from you guys, you are masters of words but look at this guy I want to prove you wrong by the test of your won guru.

Yesterday you posted and Mars too added that Talebin were created by Pakistan, in 1998 this darling of yours chided USA for creation of the monster. please read. if you believe him now you should now be satisfied who created talebin..your own guru writes here...so Islamic radicalism is not a creation of Pakistan by your own admission but we are victims too, Pakistan was forced to become a frontline state.. of course India had greatest of times helping USSR occupation..

<Even at that time, Bin Laden & his holy warriors had made it clear that the US was as much anathema to them as the communists. "bin Laden learnt a lot of tricks from the CIA, which is glad to help him fight the Russians. We all helped him. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and U.S. were united in the view that the Russians must be defeated. He was the point man,'' an unnamed Saudi intelligence official was quoted as saying in the U.S. media. Washington conceived a plan to make Moscow pay the maximum price for its occupation of Afghanistan while turning Islamic radicalism against the communists and, as a spin-off, against the Iranian Shia.
8.15.98 Chidanand Rajghatta "U.S. Frankenstein monster behind Kenya blasts?" Indian Express>



To: Narotham Reddy who wrote (42701)5/26/2002 10:55:48 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50167
 
"Bin Laden's ultimate twin towers are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia."
(Sandy Berger)

Indian massive build up is helping him achieve his objective!

Iqbal Latif, Paris
27th Sept 2002

Pakistan’s anti-terrorist posture is once again under scrutiny as India- Pakistani tensions over Kashmir, which is a potential nuclear flash point, flare up. The recent Indian assertions, that President Musharraf is not a genuine ally in the global war on terrorism, is a blatant endeavour to undo the perseverance and resolve shown by the Pakistani President since post 11th September in the changed international milieu. The Indian move is an incredibly irresponsible self-centred action, which does not take into account the global ramifications of a destabilized Pakistan. A coup or change of government in Pakistan may bring about a new round of enduring national unpredictability and propel fringe fanatics closer to the corridors of power. The charges that President Musharraf has not done enough and has failed to clamp down on infiltration, across the disputed territory of Kashmir, trivializes the significant struggle which Pakistan underwent in order to contribute to the reining of the tentacles of Global Terrorists Inc. under Osama bin Laden. The bigger picture of continuing war against global terror cannot be overlooked! That war has far bigger horizon beyond present bilateral problem of Kashmir, it has collateral impact on global economy and future of the sheikhdoms in the Middle East and oil are all linked to the continuing war against global terror.

Indian suggestions highlighted in a Vajpayee letter to President Bush, which CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA reported from Washington, stated that India has no faith in Musharraf. According to the Times correspondent in Washington, India has signalled to the United States and much of the world that it has completely lost faith in Pakistan’s General Musharraf and cannot do business with him. In a self-serving verdict the Times of India correspondent believes that ‘Musharraf is also rapidly losing Washington's trust, except perhaps his last bastion, the State Department.’ The Indian view, communicated both directly and indirectly, means a return to normalcy in the region may now depend on Musharraf’s exit or what Indian officials say is “the unlikely event of him having a complete change of heart and forsaking terrorism as an instrument of state policy.”

India myopic view forgets that an effort of making an “Arafat” out of Musharraf is actually strengthening the hands of the Islamic global militants represented by Al-Qaeda. President Musharraf rather than President is probably more likely to head the list of the most wanted man by Al Qaeda! When it mattered the most post 11th September, Pakistan under Musharraf took the right decisions; which none of the strategists in the area ever thought that Pakistan was capable of. No one ever dreamt that moderation in Pakistan army would be an overnight change of heart by the commander in chief. Not that he did any favours to anyone, he owed it to humanity and mankind at large, however in a complete 180 degree turn which shocked Indian strategists who had always believed that the fruitless quest of fighting vain battles for Islam would once again steer Pakistan into taking a wrong decision and continue supporting Talebin. In a succession of quick decisions he cleaned the slate, wiped out Talebin sympathisers like Mehmood, the dismissed Chief of ISI, and started anew.
The 11th September attacks were two-pronged, one to hit America within the safe confines of its homeland, which was a kind of a cold-blooded message with the stated objective of cowing the USA into appeasement. That first assumption was a deadly error by Al-Qaeda. They misread American history and could not evaluate the natural American response. The second objective was to get Americans out of the Islamic world and leave the crescent of instability from Morocco to Pakistan in the hands of Islamic militants. As some believe the attacks were really not about the poverty or lack democracy within the Islamic countries, if this was the case, the hijackers should have been impoverished Afghans or Africans rather than rich Saudis. The top leaders of Al-Qaeda include a trust-fund baby, hailing from one of the richest families in the Saudi kingdom, and another is a surgeon from a prominent Egyptian family. Clearly the attackers were not motivated by economic discontent, so what drove them? Religion, of course -- although not everyone is ready to fully admit the role of Islam in September's attacks.
The struggle led by Bin Laden was not only to destroy the WTC but to create enough terror so as to move on and bring the ruled and the rulers of the Muslim world into a direct confrontation. Bin Laden and his cohorts, who undeniably represent the medieval era, are pitted against those who are slightly moderate and govern Muslim countries today. Bin Laden and Omar, the defunct Talebin Ameer-ul-Momineen, used Afghanistan as a base of their strategy, the ultimate aim of which was to launch a Sunni ‘Wahabi’ revolution across the Muslim world in a hope to bring down moderate regimes such as Pakistan in its first stage. Osama, a veteran of Afghan war found in Talebin enough of the tribalism and backwardness that could help him reincarnate the 1400 years old epoch once again. ‘Talebinisation’ is the Sunni answer to the Shia revolution of Iran. Osama wanted to become the Khomieni of the Sunni world. Talebinisation under Osama would have definitely moved south into the hinterland of Pakistan as a counter to the ‘Sunni global revolution’ had the response to the 11th September attacks would have not taken out the roots of this global intifida. Denying sanctuaries and breeding grounds to the global Islamic bandits under Osama is the biggest achievement of the US led campaign against Talebin. This campaign has been successful as a result of a total cooperation from moderate regime of President Musharraf. The task would have been much more complicated had any one else would have been at the helm of the affairs. His personal risk and his correct decision to save the region from medieval reincarnation have saved the Islamic world from a major turmoil. Today the global militants are far weaker and Musharraf’s contribution are undeniable reality.
The militancy in Kashmir in terms of its scope and impact on Islamic world has some limitations even less so on global level but Islamic militant led by Osama Bin Laden associated with hordes of Puritans from Afghanistan had all the making of a fire brand Sunni revolution that could have found a lot of sympathy in the Arab street. Once Pakistan strategic assets would have been under their control, the next step would be to bring Saudi Arabia within the fold and restore the caliphate from Morrocco to Indonesia. By this view, the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were just a preamble to win the hearts and minds of the worldwide community of Muslim believers. Bin Laden hoped that the attacks against the United States would spark uprisings by Muslims against their own American-backed regimes. As Sandy Berger stated very correctly, "bin Laden's ultimate twin towers are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia." The mixture of oil and strategic assets under one Caliphate spread out from Morrocco to Indonesia would be a dreadful consequence. This theoretical but very possible scenario was averted by swift USA action and total acquiesce of the Pakistani President and the nation as a whole.

If export of new brand of Talebinised extremism would have not been checked from Pakistan’s northern borders perhaps extremist interpretation of the Koran would be taught in every school of Karachi and Lahore, and the mullahs from their pulpits might demonstrate to an already circumcised people the sanctity of the revelation and importance of martyrdom and terror. The prospective significant increase of the encatchment area in case of fall of Pakistan to extremists’ fundamentalists sends shudders down my spine. 15000 Pakistanis who left on a voluntary ‘Jihad’ were a big threat to Pakistani society and these very people had taken the society as a hostage. They were the prospective material that if had not been decimated by the US bombs would have been prospective infiltrators in Kashmir. India if not anything else should be grateful to Musharraf for leading Pakistan out of a self-destructive cycle.
India for its own gains in Kashmir is undermining the coalition efforts to stamp global war against terrorism. Pakistan, out of default, is a key member due to the nature of the terror network objective and is a target of the militants as well, since they wish to control this pivotal member. By forcing a confrontation with India they can sell Musharraf short as the man who brought down the Talebin but was unable to repel Indian aggression due to the lack of American support. They will make Musharraf an example within the Islamic world that will term him as the “New Shah”, a friend of America who was betrayed. The last thing USA wants is this new categorisation, America need trusted allies in the region the actions of India are not very helpful. India, considering the recent events in Gujarat and Bihar and with a restive Islamic population within its border, should know that they cannot afford a destabilised and radicalised Pakistan.

No one could ever challenge their hold on the society, now they have been flattened and never before Pakistani society as a whole has felt more freer from the threats of Talebinisation. That is good news for the regions and for India. A stable Pakistan helps a secular India grow stronger and provides calmness on her Northern Frontier and help her to concentrate to alleviate the condition of its people. It’s a win all situation for India and Pakistan. Curbing of extremists has helped India long-term prospects as far as intrusion are concerned and on the other hand, Pakistan as a nation are saved from a horrendous future under Talebin.

At this stage of this war against Global Terror Inc., India’s decision to weaken Pakistan and pose a threat to its very existence is not conducive to the war against Global Terror. India is a victim of terror and so is Pakistan. The militants presently engaged with Indian armed forces are the same people who have recently bombed the French engineers in Karachi, who were working on a very important Pakistani defence project. Hundreds of Pakistani Doctors have been killed by these very militants who find anyone who opposes them worthy of elimination. They are friends of no one, and are least bothered about Kashmir. It is the perpetual struggle of ‘Jihad’ and domination of Islam that drives them. The very objective of these militants is to create instability and they will thrive in this environment. The attacks on Indian parliament in December, the recent attack on Military camp are all timed to create conditions that war between Pakistan and India may break out. One of the ultimate result may be instability and fragmentation of Pakistan, a defeated Pakistan or a nuked Pakistan would be an ideal sanctuary for an extended sequel of new Talebin rogues which will have all the ingredients in this lawless land: a population that would be helpful, an army that would be defeated and a geography that can create instability in North of India to Arabian Gulf. India should have a bigger picture in mind, present mischief across the Line of Control is not a big enough reason to derail the Global war against Terrorism and push Pakistan moderates into ignominy.